[Bldg-sim] cold war, cold weather...
Joe Huang
yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com
Fri Jun 7 12:36:54 PDT 2019
As the current chair of TC 4.2 Climatic Information, I feel obligated to
reply :-)
While I admire Chris' and your enthusiasm, I am pretty certain that the
design temperatures in the ASHRAE Handbook grew out of the needs of the
HVAC engineers going back at least to the 1940's for cooling, and even
much earlier for heating. I'm hoping that Jeff Haberl can clarify the
situation and have cc'd him on this e-mail to get his attention. I've
also cc'd the TC4.2 Group in case others remember more clearly the
history of ASHRAE design temperatures. If I were a betting man, I would
wager the HOF design temperatures came out of either the industry
(Carrier ?) or engineers within the predecessor societies AHVE, ASHE
that merged in 1959 to form ASHRAE, and that the Air Force adopted it
in their publication, rather than the other way around. As Michael had
pointed out, the AF publication states that the design temperatures were
"intended to support design and construction of DOD facilities", with no
mention of use in military aviation.
It's funny how this almost off-the-cuff decision had endured and got
embellished to make it seem more hefty. For example, in the 1960's
engineers got concerned about dynamic effects and so added on hourly
profiles for temperature, solar, wind, etc., to create an artificial
design day, and in the 1990's to accommodate climates with different
seasons (or no seasons!) the criteria was switched from a seasonal 1%
to an annual 0.4%. Why 0.4% ? Simply because the temperatures would
match the previous 1% seasonal (I was in TC 4.2 at the time and
recalled those discussions). The evolution of ASHRAE Design Conditions
would seem also to make an interesting and informative paper.
As far as meteorology having an impact on military operations, I can
describe an old family story. My father, Dr. Hsia-Chien Huang
<https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/photos/irving-p.-krick-dr.-hsia-chien-huang?sort=mostpopular&mediatype=photography&phrase=irving%20p.%20krick%20dr.%20hsia%20chien%20huang&license=rf,rm&page=1&recency=anydate&suppressfamilycorrection=true>,
was the Chief Meteorologist of China during World War Two. He received
his Ph.D. at Caltech in the late 1930's studying with Dr. Irving Krick
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_P._Krick>. Dr. Krick was hired by
General Eisenhower to forecast the weather for the Normandy Invasion.
The details are in the web page so I won't describe them here, only to
say that I grew up hearing that Dr. Krick predicted the weather for the
invasion and that someone in the UK actually produced a play about this
incident. Since Dr. Krick sponsored my family to the US in 1955, I can
say that the only reason I'm in the US is due to meteorology! For the
oldtimers in TC 4.2, can you guess who picked up my family when we
arrived in Denver 64 years ago? Loren Crow, who was then working for
Dr. Krick, as did my father afterwards. Loren was very involved in TC
4.2 up until the early 1990s, having created the original WYEC files and
the CTZ files for California. Gee, maybe all these deep personal
connections to meteorology might explain my late life pre-occupation
with weather data!
Joe
On 6/7/2019 7:05 AM, Michael J Witte via Bldg-sim wrote:
> Chris - Sure, go right ahead and write a joint article for CIBSE and
> ASHRAE.
>
> I know ASHRAE is working on interviewing those with a long-time
> perspective (old-timers) to document early ASHRAE work.
> Jeff H - anything related to weather data happening in the history
> effort? Maybe some members of the weather data TC would contribute.
>
> Linda - Does the forward of Engineering Weather Data have any mention
> of the motivation for that data? Is that where the concept of using
> 99% etc. was first used?
>
> Anyone out there have a copy of the Fluor Products publication? It was
> cited as the source of the US design data in the 1972 HOF.
> Evaluated Weather Data For Cooling Equipment Design, Addendum No. 1,
> Summer and Winter Data (Fluor Products Company, Santa Rosa, Calif., 1964).
>
> On 6/6/2019 8:30 AM, Linda Lawrie wrote:
>> I have a copy of the Engineering Weather Data document (1978
>> version). (Thanks, Bob H).
>>
>> And many other historical "weather data" documents though not sure
>> how many discuss heating/cooling design data.
>>
>> Linda
>>
>> At 04:32 AM 6/6/2019, Chris Yates via Bldg-sim wrote:
>>
>>> Wow. You know what Michael. I think you have the makings of an
>>> ASHRAE journal atricle! I want to do something similar for CIBSE.
>>> I'd love to use your findings.
>>> On 5 Jun 2019 23:21, "Michael J Witte via Bldg-sim"
>>> <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
>>> <mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I haven't seen a reply yet to this, so here goes . . .
>>>
>>> The oldest ASHRAE handbook on my shelf is a 1972 HOF (thanks Bob
>>> H.!). Chapter 33 is Weather Data and Design Conditions. The
>>> reference list includes these two primary sources:
>>>
>>> Evaluated Weather Data For Cooling Equipment Design, Addendum
>>> No. 1, Summer and Winter Data (Fluor Products Company, Santa
>>> Rosa, Calif., 1964).
>>> and
>>> Engineering Weather Data (Army, Navy, and Air Force Manual TM
>>> 5-785, 1963).
>>>
>>> You can buy a copy of the 1958 edition of Evaluated Weather Data
>>> on amazon
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Evaluated-Weather-Cooling-Equipment-Design/dp/B000HDSNFY
>>>
>>>
>>> I bet someone out there has a copy of the Engineering Weather
>>> Data manual on a shelf. Some quick searching leads to this later
>>> online version.
>>> http://web.utk.edu/~archinfo/EcoDesign/escurriculum/weather_data/weather_data_summ.html
>>>
>>> which says:
>>>
>>> "The Engineering Weather Data (EWD) and other products were
>>> developed by the Air Force Combat Climatology Center (AFCCC).
>>> Data is provided for approximately 800 stations worldwide.
>>> Intended to support design and construction of DOD facilities,
>>> the format is slanted toward professional engineers, but could
>>> have numerous other uses. "
>>>
>>> Searching AFCCC leads here to a fascinating history.
>>> https://www.airweaassn.org/Library/afwa/history.html
>>> <https://www.airweaassn.org/Library/afwa/history.html>
>>>
>>> "The mission of AFCCC is one of military applied climatology. We
>>> collect, maintain, and apply worldwide weather data, creating
>>> climatological products to strengthen the combat capability of
>>> America's warfighters. AFCCC's support to America's warfighters
>>> has a long history."
>>>
>>> And a fitting excerpt on the 75th anniversary of D-Day:
>>>
>>> "There was probably no WWII operation, major or minor, that did
>>> not include climatological input. The planning for every
>>> landing, mission, and offensive, including the D-Day invasion in
>>> 1944 and the atomic bombing of Japan, required extensive
>>> climatological preparation and analyses."
>>>
>>> So, Chris, your impression appears correct. Weather data
>>> statistics were motivated by military requirements (for better
>>> or worse), and marketing cooling equipment.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> p.s. The pages from the 1972 HOF are included in a digitized
>>> NBSLD manual (one of the great mother programs of building
>>> simulation), pdf p. 287ff.
>>> https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GOVPUB-C13-9bcc6856169c63cf2c5ab81af189bd75/pdf/GOVPUB-C13-9bcc6856169c63cf2c5ab81af189bd75.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/20/2019 4:16 AM, Chris Yates via Bldg-sim wrote:
>>>> Hi All
>>>>
>>>> Does anybody have any interesting background on the sources
>>>> of (and motivations for calculating) the outdoor design
>>>> conditions now available in ASHRAE HOF?
>>>>
>>>> My impression is that it was possibly derived for the
>>>> purposes of keeping B52's and allied v-bombers ready for
>>>> action at a moment's notice.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>>
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