[Bldg-sim] cold war, cold weather...
Michael J Witte
mjwitte at gard.com
Fri Jun 7 13:20:43 PDT 2019
Thanks Joe - I was hoping someone would chime in with more authority.
And a fascinating personal history - who knew?
On 6/7/2019 2:36 PM, Joe Huang via Bldg-sim wrote:
> As the current chair of TC 4.2 Climatic Information, I feel obligated
> to reply :-)
>
> While I admire Chris' and your enthusiasm, I am pretty certain that
> the design temperatures in the ASHRAE Handbook grew out of the needs
> of the HVAC engineers going back at least to the 1940's for cooling,
> and even much earlier for heating. I'm hoping that Jeff Haberl can
> clarify the situation and have cc'd him on this e-mail to get his
> attention. I've also cc'd the TC4.2 Group in case others remember more
> clearly the history of ASHRAE design temperatures. If I were a betting
> man, I would wager the HOF design temperatures came out of either the
> industry (Carrier ?) or engineers within the predecessor societies
> AHVE, ASHE that merged in 1959 to form ASHRAE, and that the Air Force
> adopted it in their publication, rather than the other way around. As
> Michael had pointed out, the AF publication states that the design
> temperatures were "intended to support design and construction of DOD
> facilities", with no mention of use in military aviation.
>
> It's funny how this almost off-the-cuff decision had endured and got
> embellished to make it seem more hefty. For example, in the 1960's
> engineers got concerned about dynamic effects and so added on hourly
> profiles for temperature, solar, wind, etc., to create an artificial
> design day, and in the 1990's to accommodate climates with different
> seasons (or no seasons!) the criteria was switched from a seasonal 1%
> to an annual 0.4%. Why 0.4% ? Simply because the temperatures would
> match the previous 1% seasonal (I was in TC 4.2 at the time and
> recalled those discussions). The evolution of ASHRAE Design
> Conditions would seem also to make an interesting and informative paper.
>
> As far as meteorology having an impact on military operations, I can
> describe an old family story. My father, Dr. Hsia-Chien Huang
> <https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/photos/irving-p.-krick-dr.-hsia-chien-huang?sort=mostpopular&mediatype=photography&phrase=irving%20p.%20krick%20dr.%20hsia%20chien%20huang&license=rf,rm&page=1&recency=anydate&suppressfamilycorrection=true>,
> was the Chief Meteorologist of China during World War Two. He
> received his Ph.D. at Caltech in the late 1930's studying with Dr.
> Irving Krick <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_P._Krick>. Dr.
> Krick was hired by General Eisenhower to forecast the weather for the
> Normandy Invasion. The details are in the web page so I won't describe
> them here, only to say that I grew up hearing that Dr. Krick predicted
> the weather for the invasion and that someone in the UK actually
> produced a play about this incident. Since Dr. Krick sponsored my
> family to the US in 1955, I can say that the only reason I'm in the US
> is due to meteorology! For the oldtimers in TC 4.2, can you guess
> who picked up my family when we arrived in Denver 64 years ago? Loren
> Crow, who was then working for Dr. Krick, as did my father
> afterwards. Loren was very involved in TC 4.2 up until the early
> 1990s, having created the original WYEC files and the CTZ files for
> California. Gee, maybe all these deep personal connections to
> meteorology might explain my late life pre-occupation with weather data!
>
> Joe
>
> On 6/7/2019 7:05 AM, Michael J Witte via Bldg-sim wrote:
>> Chris - Sure, go right ahead and write a joint article for CIBSE and
>> ASHRAE.
>>
>> I know ASHRAE is working on interviewing those with a long-time
>> perspective (old-timers) to document early ASHRAE work.
>> Jeff H - anything related to weather data happening in the history
>> effort? Maybe some members of the weather data TC would contribute.
>>
>> Linda - Does the forward of Engineering Weather Data have any mention
>> of the motivation for that data? Is that where the concept of using
>> 99% etc. was first used?
>>
>> Anyone out there have a copy of the Fluor Products publication? It
>> was cited as the source of the US design data in the 1972 HOF.
>> Evaluated Weather Data For Cooling Equipment Design, Addendum No. 1,
>> Summer and Winter Data (Fluor Products Company, Santa Rosa, Calif.,
>> 1964).
>>
>> On 6/6/2019 8:30 AM, Linda Lawrie wrote:
>>> I have a copy of the Engineering Weather Data document (1978
>>> version). (Thanks, Bob H).
>>>
>>> And many other historical "weather data" documents though not sure
>>> how many discuss heating/cooling design data.
>>>
>>> Linda
>>>
>>> At 04:32 AM 6/6/2019, Chris Yates via Bldg-sim wrote:
>>>
>>>> Wow. You know what Michael. I think you have the makings of an
>>>> ASHRAE journal atricle! I want to do something similar for CIBSE.
>>>> I'd love to use your findings.
>>>> On 5 Jun 2019 23:21, "Michael J Witte via Bldg-sim"
>>>> <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
>>>> <mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I haven't seen a reply yet to this, so here goes . . .
>>>>
>>>> The oldest ASHRAE handbook on my shelf is a 1972 HOF (thanks
>>>> Bob H.!). Chapter 33 is Weather Data and Design Conditions. The
>>>> reference list includes these two primary sources:
>>>>
>>>> Evaluated Weather Data For Cooling Equipment Design, Addendum
>>>> No. 1, Summer and Winter Data (Fluor Products Company, Santa
>>>> Rosa, Calif., 1964).
>>>> and
>>>> Engineering Weather Data (Army, Navy, and Air Force Manual TM
>>>> 5-785, 1963).
>>>>
>>>> You can buy a copy of the 1958 edition of Evaluated Weather
>>>> Data on amazon
>>>> https://www.amazon.com/Evaluated-Weather-Cooling-Equipment-Design/dp/B000HDSNFY
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I bet someone out there has a copy of the Engineering Weather
>>>> Data manual on a shelf. Some quick searching leads to this
>>>> later online version.
>>>> http://web.utk.edu/~archinfo/EcoDesign/escurriculum/weather_data/weather_data_summ.html
>>>>
>>>> which says:
>>>>
>>>> "The Engineering Weather Data (EWD) and other products were
>>>> developed by the Air Force Combat Climatology Center (AFCCC).
>>>> Data is provided for approximately 800 stations worldwide.
>>>> Intended to support design and construction of DOD facilities,
>>>> the format is slanted toward professional engineers, but could
>>>> have numerous other uses. "
>>>>
>>>> Searching AFCCC leads here to a fascinating history.
>>>> https://www.airweaassn.org/Library/afwa/history.html
>>>> <https://www.airweaassn.org/Library/afwa/history.html>
>>>>
>>>> "The mission of AFCCC is one of military applied climatology.
>>>> We collect, maintain, and apply worldwide weather data,
>>>> creating climatological products to strengthen the combat
>>>> capability of America's warfighters. AFCCC's support to
>>>> America's warfighters has a long history."
>>>>
>>>> And a fitting excerpt on the 75th anniversary of D-Day:
>>>>
>>>> "There was probably no WWII operation, major or minor, that did
>>>> not include climatological input. The planning for every
>>>> landing, mission, and offensive, including the D-Day invasion
>>>> in 1944 and the atomic bombing of Japan, required extensive
>>>> climatological preparation and analyses."
>>>>
>>>> So, Chris, your impression appears correct. Weather data
>>>> statistics were motivated by military requirements (for better
>>>> or worse), and marketing cooling equipment.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> p.s. The pages from the 1972 HOF are included in a digitized
>>>> NBSLD manual (one of the great mother programs of building
>>>> simulation), pdf p. 287ff.
>>>> https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GOVPUB-C13-9bcc6856169c63cf2c5ab81af189bd75/pdf/GOVPUB-C13-9bcc6856169c63cf2c5ab81af189bd75.pdf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5/20/2019 4:16 AM, Chris Yates via Bldg-sim wrote:
>>>>> Hi All
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anybody have any interesting background on the
>>>>> sources of (and motivations for calculating) the outdoor
>>>>> design conditions now available in ASHRAE HOF?
>>>>>
>>>>> My impression is that it was possibly derived for the
>>>>> purposes of keeping B52's and allied v-bombers ready for
>>>>> action at a moment's notice.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>>
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