[UA] Archetypes...

[Ysidro]

Epoch wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 21 May 2001, Ysidro wrote:
> 
> > Right.  I caught that (at the last second that is).  That's what I meant
> > by a different archtype ascending.  Not something I've ever considered.
> > Possibly it's impossible (huh?) to actually happen.  However, that leads
> > to uninteresting conversations that degenerate into "I'm right!  You're
> > wrong!"  So, even though I am right, let's go with your example.
> 
> Oh, sure.  I'm not unreasonable.  I know that the "Official Canon
> Answer," if there was one at all, would probably be that the Comte is the
> only person who can possibly ever take the 333rd position, and things go
> on nicely like that.  But, well, that's what I mean by the Comte being a
> little overly special-cased.  There's no reason, in the existing
> cosmology, why that should be true -- it doesn't logically descend from
> the concept of the IC.  And that offends me on an aesthetic level.
> 

I understand.  I think we can come up with a pleasing explanation, but
not until after dinner. :)

<snip>

> 
> As you point out, for the Comte to be a first & last man, everyone else
> has to die.  That's an interesting fact.  What happens to everyone
> else?  Does the Compte kill them?
>

Actually, I semi-cheated.  There is nothing in the canon that says the
entire world ends when the Clergy is filled.  It's one theory (and the
one I generally prefer), but another says a major shift of world powers
and conciousness occurs (fall of the Roman Empire?).  Obviously, if the
second is what happens then no one needs to croak.
 
> Maybe not.  Maybe the last 3 Archetypes are "fixed."  #331 is always the
> Genocide.  #332 is the Genocide Victim.  And #333 is the First & Last Man.
> 
> (Okay, so that could easily have been just the last two Archetypes, but I
> fit the Genocide Victim in there because the number three seems more
> mystically relevent).
>

Genocide Victim doesn't seem right.  There's no reason why it just can't
be "The Victim".  Why does this guy (or gal) embody the archtype better
than anyone else?  And how does "Genocide" (which really just sounds
like a good take on a f'd up Godwalker of War) end?  I actually prefer
the asthetics of the First and Last Man being the only ascension "set in
stone" over several being required.
 
> Or maybe the Comte does kill everyone.  That's got kind of a nice sense of
> "undermining the Comte as a good guy," which I like.
>

He should contain multitudes.
 
> Let's drop all that and jump back to your idea that if the Comte doesn't
> Ascend, then the universe goes on forever.  Okay, but let's suppose that
> the IC /does/ form a Godhead (after all, it's supposed to -- all the seats
> have been filled).
>
> This could be an extraordinarily good or bad thing.  If you've got a
> benevolent Godhead, then, YAY!  The world goes on forever, and everyone's
> nice.  If you've got a malevolent Godhead, then things look bad.  Could be
> a nice threat to hold over a very high-level campaign.
>

Personally, I'd say it can't form a Godhead.  Then again, it's fun and
you end up with a blind demiurge <evil grin>.
   
> Me, I like the idea that the Comte can be killed.  Indeed, I like the idea
> that he /does/ get killed early on in a game. But that the universe still
> demands a First & Last Man, and it goes to whomever best fits the
> role.  Well, it's pretty easy to tell who's the best at this:  The person
> who's the oldest and still living is best fitting the first man
> role, at least.  Start assassinating the Eldery, ladies and gents.
> 
> The Vampires and Doug Forsythe are gonna be in a blood struggle.
> 

Interesting, but something bothers me.  It's the whole significance of
the First and Last Man.  How about everyone *thinks* they can fit in
once he's gone and everyone scrambles for something they can't have. 
Machinations of the NG?  Scary thoughts there.

Greg
-- 
Penn-Ohio Historical European Martial Arts Society
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~ysidro/pohemas.html

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