[UA] Archetypes...

[Epoch]

On Mon, 21 May 2001, Ysidro wrote:

> Right.  I caught that (at the last second that is).  That's what I meant
> by a different archtype ascending.  Not something I've ever considered. 
> Possibly it's impossible (huh?) to actually happen.  However, that leads
> to uninteresting conversations that degenerate into "I'm right!  You're
> wrong!"  So, even though I am right, let's go with your example.

Oh, sure.  I'm not unreasonable.  I know that the "Official Canon
Answer," if there was one at all, would probably be that the Comte is the
only person who can possibly ever take the 333rd position, and things go
on nicely like that.  But, well, that's what I mean by the Comte being a
little overly special-cased.  There's no reason, in the existing
cosmology, why that should be true -- it doesn't logically descend from
the concept of the IC.  And that offends me on an aesthetic level.

There's also some interesting thought experiments here.

> All 333 archtypes are filled.  An archtype can only be ousted if someone
> else fills the archtype better than the current one, right?  Therefore,
> no First and Last Man can *ever* ascend.  The universe keeps going. 
> Forever.  Comte gets pissed.  Takes over the world.  Bloodsports become
> common as they are the only way to distract the attentions of the new
> King of Earth.  
> 
> OK, maybe not those last few parts.  
> 
> Let's go back to the idea that it's impossible now.  My take is that the
> Comte won't ascend until the very very very end.  As the world nears
> complition, archtypes start filling in the spaces even quicker.  But at
> the very end, when the 332nd goes up, the Comte does too (and probably
> just after everyone else dies.  Or else he wouldn't have that Last Man
> part fufilled).
> 
> Of course, you mentioned a double ascension.  I don't particularly like
> it and don't think it'll happen.  With the world coming to a head,
> everyone would know about it.  They'd have to be some mighty serious
> archtypes coming in at the last second.  Still, I suppose it *could*
> happen.

As you point out, for the Comte to be a first & last man, everyone else
has to die.  That's an interesting fact.  What happens to everyone
else?  Does the Compte kill them?

Maybe not.  Maybe the last 3 Archetypes are "fixed."  #331 is always the
Genocide.  #332 is the Genocide Victim.  And #333 is the First & Last Man.

(Okay, so that could easily have been just the last two Archetypes, but I
fit the Genocide Victim in there because the number three seems more
mystically relevent).

Or maybe the Comte does kill everyone.  That's got kind of a nice sense of
"undermining the Comte as a good guy," which I like.

Let's drop all that and jump back to your idea that if the Comte doesn't
Ascend, then the universe goes on forever.  Okay, but let's suppose that
the IC /does/ form a Godhead (after all, it's supposed to -- all the seats
have been filled).

This could be an extraordinarily good or bad thing.  If you've got a
benevolent Godhead, then, YAY!  The world goes on forever, and everyone's
nice.  If you've got a malevolent Godhead, then things look bad.  Could be
a nice threat to hold over a very high-level campaign.

Me, I like the idea that the Comte can be killed.  Indeed, I like the idea
that he /does/ get killed early on in a game. But that the universe still
demands a First & Last Man, and it goes to whomever best fits the
role.  Well, it's pretty easy to tell who's the best at this:  The person
who's the oldest and still living is best fitting the first man
role, at least.  Start assassinating the Eldery, ladies and gents.

The Vampires and Doug Forsythe are gonna be in a blood struggle.


Mike

--
"Generally speaking, the Slayer is always all out of bubble gum."
	http://www.edromia.com/games/buffy/index.html


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