[TRNSYS-users] Floor Heating - Trnsys3D

Fri May 1 11:58:20 PDT 2020

Hoofar,

   In order to segment a floor, you need to set the geometry mode in 
that zone to "manual" which unfortunately means that you can no longer 
do detailed radiation calculations in that zone. You are prevented from 
adding additional surfaces (which is essentially what happens when you 
segment the floor) unless you are in manual geometry mode in TRNBuild.

kind regards,

  David

On 04/30/2020 15:26, Hemmatabady, Hoofar wrote:
> Dear David,
>
> Regarding my previous email,
>
> #1) When I switch to "manual mode" and click on "Divide Surface" 
> button, it doesn't segment the floor and again gives one segment for 
> the whole floor (The attached image).
>
> I also realized that it is possible to change the minimum allowable 
> flow rate by changing pipe spacing. But as it should be according to 
> the standards, I cant change it that much. Is there any other way to 
> resolve this problem?
>
> Thank you in advance.
>
> Best regards
> Hoofar
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Von:* Hemmatabady, Hoofar
> *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 24. März 2020 11:00:04
> *An:* David BRADLEY
> *Betreff:* AW: [TRNSYS-users] Floor Heating - Trnsys3D
>
> Dear David,
>
>
> Thank you for your reply.
>
>
> #1) When I switch to "manual mode" and click on "Divide Surface" 
> button, it doesn't segment the floor and again gives one segment for 
> the whole floor (The attached picture, ManualMode).
>
>
> #3) What is the surf-ID definition order in TRNbuild? e.g., for the 
> zone first floor (The attached picture, surf-ID), which is heated by 
> the active layer with the construction type "ADJ_CEILING_basement",  
> should I give the fluid inlet temperature and flow rate from 
> simulation studio to the surf-ID 44 and then give the output from 44 
> to *_46_* and from 46 to 47 and....?
>
>
> Best regards
>
> Hoofar
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Von:* David BRADLEY <d.bradley at tess-inc.com>
> *Gesendet:* Montag, 23. März 2020 13:43:23
> *An:* TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org
> *Cc:* Hemmatabady, Hoofar
> *Betreff:* Re: [TRNSYS-users] Floor Heating - Trnsys3D
>
> Hoofar,
>
>   If you click on the "Geometry Modes" button in a given zone you can 
> switch one or more zones to "manual mode." This allows you to create 
> the geometry in Trnsys3d but then autosegment the floors of a 
> particular zone afterwards. The disadvantage, of course, is that once 
> you switch a zone to manual mode you cannot then go back and edit the 
> building geometry in Trnsys3D.
>
>
>   If you do not want to switch to manual mode then here are some 
> responses to your questions:
>
>
> 1) How should be the surfaces split in Trnsys3D? Have I used the right 
> approach?
>
> I believe that what you've done is reasonable. The autosegment feature 
> puts a number of smaller floor areas in series.
>
> 2) How can they be manually connected?  (when the Autosegmentation is 
> done, surfaces are automatically connected in series with automatic 
> inlet temperature and the same inlet flow rate)
>
> I think you will need to do this by adding outputs and inputs to your 
> Type56 model. The connections will need to be done outside of Type56 
> in the Simulation Studio.
>
> 3) After splitting the floors, which output shows the overall heat 
> transfer to the zone and which one shows the final outlet fluid 
> temperature?
>
> I think that for the overall heat transfer to the zone you'll need to 
> sum up a number of Type556 outputs. The overall heat transfer to the 
> zone will be the sum of the heat transfer to the zone from each 
> individual floor piece. The final outlet temperature will depend upon 
> the order in which you connect the floors to one another in the 
> Simulation Studio. I'd suggest using the surface IDs that TRNBuild 
> assigns and drawing a picture so that you can keep all the connections 
> straight.
>
> 4) What should be the standard number of fluid loops per square meter?
>
> There is an equation in the TRNBuild/Type56 manual that suggests a way 
> of computing the number of loops based on how long you want each 
> individual pipe to be.
>
> kind regards,
>  David
>
>
>
> On 03/21/2020 11:38, Hemmatabady, Hoofar via TRNSYS-users wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am working on a project on heating a house with a heat pump. I 
>> designed a Trnsys3D model of the house, which I need to implement a 
>> floor heating system on it. After adding an active layer in TRNbuild, 
>> got the error "Specific fluid mass flow of active layer in surface  
>> 16 below minimum value of 2.96 kg/m2h Please, increase the minimum 
>> mass flow rate or use the autosegmentation feature of TRNBuild for 
>> subdividing the surface.".
>>
>> As I have a 3d model, the Autosegmentation is not possible. 
>> Therefore, following TRNbuild documentation "For airnodes with 3D 
>> geometric information the splitting of surfaces have to be done in 
>> Trnsys3D and then manually connected",  I split my floors (in 
>> Sketchup) into 20 equal surfaces using parallel lines and imported my 
>> 3d model back to TRNbuild.
>>
>> Here are my questions:
>>
>> 1) How should be the surfaces split in Trnsys3D? Have I used the 
>> right approach?
>> 2) How can they be manually connected?  (when the Autosegmentation is 
>> done, surfaces are automatically connected in series with automatic 
>> inlet temperature and the same inlet flow rate)
>> 3) After splitting the floors, which output shows the overall heat 
>> transfer to the zone and which one shows the final outlet fluid 
>> temperature?
>> 4) What should be the standard number of fluid loops per square meter?
>>
>>
>> Best regards
>> Hoofar Hemmatabady
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TRNSYS-users mailing list
>> TRNSYS-users at lists.onebuilding.org
>> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/trnsys-users-onebuilding.org
> -- 
> ***************************
> David BRADLEY
> Principal
> Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
> 3 North Pinckney Street - suite 202
> Madison, WI  53703 USA
>
> P:+1.608.274.2577
> F:+1.608.278.1475
> d.bradley at tess-inc.com
>
> http://www.tess-inc.com
> http://www.trnsys.com

-- 
***************************
David BRADLEY
Principal
Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
3 North Pinckney Street - suite 202
Madison, WI  53703 USA

P:+1.608.274.2577
F:+1.608.278.1475
d.bradley at tess-inc.com

http://www.tess-inc.com
http://www.trnsys.com

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