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<p>Hoofar,</p>
<p> In order to segment a floor, you need to set the geometry mode
in that zone to "manual" which unfortunately means that you can no
longer do detailed radiation calculations in that zone. You are
prevented from adding additional surfaces (which is essentially
what happens when you segment the floor) unless you are in manual
geometry mode in TRNBuild.</p>
<p>kind regards,</p>
<p> David</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 04/30/2020 15:26, Hemmatabady,
Hoofar wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:b18127888d354fd6b8b0f64967c45975@geo.tu-darmstadt.de">
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<div style="">Dear David,<br>
</div>
<span style="display:inline!important; float:none;
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<div style=""><br>
</div>
<div style="">Regarding my previous email,</div>
<div style=""><br>
</div>
<span style="display:inline!important; float:none;
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font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,"EmojiFont";
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<div style="">#1) When I switch to "manual mode" and click on
"Divide Surface" button, it doesn't segment the floor and
again gives one segment for the whole floor (The attached
image).</div>
<div style=""><br>
</div>
<div style="">I also realized that it is possible to change
the minimum allowable flow rate by changing pipe spacing.
But as it should be according to the standards, I cant
change it that much. Is there any other way to resolve this
problem?</div>
<div style=""><br>
</div>
<div style="">Thank you in advance.</div>
<div style=""><br>
</div>
<div style="">Best regards</div>
<div style="">Hoofar</div>
<div style=""><br>
</div>
<div style=""><br>
</div>
</div>
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>Von:</b>
Hemmatabady, Hoofar<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Dienstag, 24. März 2020 11:00:04<br>
<b>An:</b> David BRADLEY<br>
<b>Betreff:</b> AW: [TRNSYS-users] Floor Heating - Trnsys3D</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
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<p>Dear David,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Thank you for your reply. </p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>#1) When I switch to "manual mode" and click on "Divide
Surface" button, it doesn't segment the floor and again
gives one segment for the whole floor (The attached
picture, ManualMode).</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>#3) What is the surf-ID definition order in TRNbuild?
e.g., for the zone first floor (<span
style="display:inline!important; float:none;
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font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,"EmojiFont","Apple
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word-spacing:0px">T</span><span
style="display:inline!important; float:none;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255); color:rgb(0,0,0);
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,"EmojiFont","Apple
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Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols;
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text-align:left; text-decoration:none; text-indent:0px;
text-transform:none; white-space:normal;
word-spacing:0px">he attached picture</span>, surf-ID),
which is heated by the active layer with the construction
type "ADJ_CEILING_basement", should I give the fluid
inlet temperature and flow rate from simulation studio to
the surf-ID 44 and then give the output from 44 to
<b><u>46</u></b> and from 46 to 47 and....?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Best regards</p>
<p>Hoofar</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>Von:</b>
David BRADLEY <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com"><d.bradley@tess-inc.com></a><br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Montag, 23. März 2020 13:43:23<br>
<b>An:</b> TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Hemmatabady, Hoofar<br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [TRNSYS-users] Floor Heating -
Trnsys3D</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<p>Hoofar,</p>
<p> If you click on the "Geometry Modes" button in a given
zone you can switch one or more zones to "manual mode."
This allows you to create the geometry in Trnsys3d but
then autosegment the floors of a particular zone
afterwards. The disadvantage, of course, is that once you
switch a zone to manual mode you cannot then go back and
edit the building geometry in Trnsys3D.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p> If you do not want to switch to manual mode then here
are some responses to your questions:</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>1) How should <span style="">be </span>the surfaces
split in Trnsys3D? Have I used the right approach?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I believe that what you've done is reasonable. The
autosegment feature puts a number of smaller floor areas
in series.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2) How can they be manually connected? (when the
Autosegmentation is done, surfaces are automatically
connected in series with automatic inlet temperature and
the same inlet flow rate)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think you will need to do this by adding outputs and
inputs to your Type56 model. The connections will need to
be done outside of Type56 in the Simulation Studio.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>3) After splitting the floors, which output shows the
overall heat transfer to the zone and which one shows the
final outlet fluid temperature?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think that for the overall heat transfer to the zone
you'll need to sum up a number of Type556 outputs. The
overall heat transfer to the zone will be the sum of the
heat transfer to the zone from each individual floor
piece. The final outlet temperature will depend upon the
order in which you connect the floors to one another in
the Simulation Studio. I'd suggest using the surface IDs
that TRNBuild assigns and drawing a picture so that you
can keep all the connections straight.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>4) What should be the standard number of fluid loops
per square meter?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There is an equation in the TRNBuild/Type56 manual that
suggests a way of computing the number of loops based on
how long you want each individual pipe to be.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>kind regards,</div>
<div> David</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03/21/2020 11:38,
Hemmatabady, Hoofar via TRNSYS-users wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
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<div>Hello,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am working on a project on heating a house with a
heat pump. I designed a Trnsys3D model of the house,
which I need to implement a floor heating system on
it. After adding an active layer in TRNbuild, got the
error "<span>Specific fluid mass flow of active layer
in surface 16 below minimum value of 2.96 kg/m2h
Please, increase the minimum mass flow rate or use
the autosegmentation feature of TRNBuild for
subdividing the surface.</span>".</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As I have a 3d model, the Autosegmentation is not
possible. Therefore, following TRNbuild documentation
"<span>For airnodes with 3D geometric information the
splitting of surfaces have to be done in Trnsys3D
and then manually connected</span>", I split my
floors (in Sketchup) into 20 equal surfaces using
parallel lines and imported my 3d model back to
TRNbuild. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Here are my questions:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1) How should <span style="">be </span>the
surfaces split in Trnsys3D? Have I used the right
approach?</div>
<div>2) How can they be manually connected? (when the
Autosegmentation is done, surfaces are automatically
connected in series with automatic inlet temperature
and the same inlet flow rate)<br>
</div>
<div>3) After splitting the floors, which output shows
the overall heat transfer to the zone and which one
shows the final outlet fluid temperature?</div>
<div>4) What should be the standard number of fluid
loops per square meter?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards</div>
<div>Hoofar Hemmatabady</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
***************************
David BRADLEY
Principal
Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
3 North Pinckney Street - suite 202
Madison, WI 53703 USA
P:+1.608.274.2577
F:+1.608.278.1475
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
***************************
David BRADLEY
Principal
Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
3 North Pinckney Street - suite 202
Madison, WI 53703 USA
P:+1.608.274.2577
F:+1.608.278.1475
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:d.bradley@tess-inc.com">d.bradley@tess-inc.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.tess-inc.com">http://www.tess-inc.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.trnsys.com">http://www.trnsys.com</a></pre>
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