[TRNSYS-users] QTSABS vs QSOLTR

Karol Bandurski karol.bandurski at put.poznan.pl
Thu Dec 13 01:22:26 PST 2018


Marion,

 

Thanks for your patience!

 

It seem to me clear.

 

So (in my case):

- common for QSOLTR and QTSABS is solar energy accumulated in walls

- difference is that in QSOLTR second part of energy comeback to outside and
third part (going to outside) heat up windows, while in QTSABS second part
is sun radiation accumulated in windows (when radiation go to inside and
outside zone) which then heat up inside.

 

Am I right?

 

Karol

 

From: hotline [mailto:hotline at Transsolar.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 5:55 PM
To: Karol Bandurski; 'TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org'
Subject: AW: [TRNSYS-users] QTSABS vs QSOLTR

 

Karol,

 

This equation isn't correct!

 

The absorbed solar radiation on the inside of opaque surfaces of a zone are

Qabsi_opq = QTSABS - QSEC = QSOLTR - QTSOUT - Qabsi_win_out

 

with 

Qabsi_win_out . is solar radiation absorbed by windows (panes, frame and
internal shading devices) when radiation is incident from inside.

 

In your example, QTSOUT is relative small compared to QSEC. This means that
not much radiation is leaving the zone.  Then QTSABS is larger than QSOLTR
because solar radiation is mainly absorbed when it is incident from outside.

I have the feeling that you didn't get the definition of QSEC correctly: 

the secondary heat flux of windows (panes, frame and internal shading
devices) ( = QSEC, NType 56).
In this case the secondary heat flux is the part of solar radiation that is
absorbed solar radiation (incident from outside and inside) by the windows  
and going inside to the airnode as radiative and convective gain.

 

 

I encourage you to look at certain time step at the numbers for a zone (A10)
with the select outputs of Balance 1 (starting from NTYPE 910).

Balance 1 provides an good overview where radiation goes.

 

Marion

 

____________________________________________________________________________
______________________

 

Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH

Curiestraße 2

70563 Stuttgart

 <http://www.transsolar.com/> http://www.transsolar.com

Transsolar: KlimaEngineering- Technologien für energieeffizientes Bauen und
Nutzerkomfort in Gebäuden

Stuttgart - München - New York - Paris 

Geschäftsführer :Diplom-Ingenieur Matthias Schuler, Diplom-Ingenieur Thomas
Auer, Diplom-Physiker Stefan Holst, Diplom-Betriebswirt Dieter Schnelle

Eingetragen beim Amtsgericht Stuttgart HRB 23347, 

Steuernummer: 99073/00911,USt-IdNr.: DE 152272639

 

The simulation project you have sent will be stored on the local servers of
Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH for the duration of the project support. Our
employees are obliged by us to confidentiality. After this period, all
project-related data is deleted.

 

The storage of your personal e-mail and other contact information is based
on the mutual interest in the execution of this traffic and on a mutual
business contact. If you have any questions, please contact our data
protection officer at  <mailto:privacy at transsolar.com>
privacy at transsolar.com. Our privacy policy can be found
<http://www.trnsys.de/docs/userservice/userservice_dataprivacy_en.htm> here.

  _____  

Von: Karol Bandurski <karol.bandurski at put.poznan.pl>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 29. November 2018 17:41:23
An: hotline; 'TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org'
Betreff: RE: [TRNSYS-users] QTSABS vs QSOLTR 

 

Dear Marion,

 

So, if I understand, in my case (lack of internal shading), QSOLTR should be
bigger than QTSABS because it includes also QTSOUT and radiation that is
absorbed by windows but then transferred by convection to outside:

 

QSOLTR=QTSABS+QTSOUT+radiation absorbed by windows and then transferred by
convection to outside.

 

If I am right:

1)      Way QSOLTR < QTSABS in my case?

2)      Solar gain is QTSABS because it represents solar radiation that is
captured inside zone while QSOLTR include also QSTOUT and radiation absorbed
by windows and then transferred by convection to outside.

 

I would be grateful for more clarification!

 

Kind regards,
Karol

 

 

From: hotline [mailto:hotline at Transsolar.com] 
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2018 2:30 PM
To: Karol Bandurski; 'TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org'
Subject: AW: [TRNSYS-users] QTSABS vs QSOLTR

 

Dear Karol,

 

I have to confess that this is a little confusing.

For better understanding of the differences of QSOLTR and QTSABS it is
important to understand the considered "parts".

 

QSOLTR is the total shortwave solar radiation transmitted through all
external windows including shading device into the airnode.

Then in the airnode this radiation is distributed to surfaces (taking into
reflection). (For simplicity reasons we assume that there are no adjacent
windows). 

 

As a results QSOLTR is either  

a) immediately transferred as convective heat gain to the internal air (=
Qsolair, doesn't exist in Trnsys 17) or is

b) absorbed by walls or

b) is absorbed by windows (panes, frame and internal shading devices) as
radiation leaves (!) the airnode to the outside or

c) is transmitted to the outside (= QTSOUT, NType 73)

 

QTSABS (NType 75) consists of 

a.	solar radiation is absorbed by walls and
b.	the secondary heat flux of windows (panes, frame and internal
shading devices) ( = QSEC, NType 56).
In this case the secondary heat flux is the part of solar radiation that is
absorbed by windows when solar radiation is entering and leaving the airnode

and going inside to the airnode.

 

Thus, QSOLTR and QTSABS consider different parts of the solar radiation.

I assume you are looking something like QSOLTR - QTSOUT.

 

I hope this explanation helps.

 

Kind regards,

 

Marion

 

 

Von: Karol Bandurski <karol.bandurski at put.poznan.pl> 
Gesendet: Freitag, 23. November 2018 09:39
An: hotline <hotline at Transsolar.com>; 'TRNSYS users mailing list at
OneBuilding.org' <trnsys-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Betreff: RE: [TRNSYS-users] QTSABS vs QSOLTR

 

Dear Christoph,

 

Thank you for your response!

 

The problem is that, it seems to me, that I don't have internal shading, so
QSOLTR should equal QTSABS. Am I right?

 

How should I set window type and external devices to get QSOLTR=QTSABS?

 

Kind regards,
Karol

 

From: hotline [ <mailto:hotline at Transsolar.com>
mailto:hotline at Transsolar.com] 
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2018 4:57 PM
To: TRNSYS users mailing list at OneBuilding.org
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] QTSABS vs QSOLTR

 

Dear Karol,

 

QSOLTR is the total shortwave solar radiation transmitted through external
windows and internal shading.

QTSABS also includes the secondary heat flux which includes the convection
of internal shader.

 

Hope that clarifies your energy balance a bit.

 

Best,

Christoph

 

Von: TRNSYS-users <trnsys-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org> Im Auftrag
von Karol Bandurski via TRNSYS-users
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. November 2018 16:42
An: trnsys-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Cc: Karol Bandurski <karol.bandurski at put.poznan.pl>
Betreff: [TRNSYS-users] QTSABS vs QSOLTR

 

Dear All,

 

I am going to find whole solar gain which come to zone throug windows.

There are two outputs that I consider: QTSABS and QSOLTR.

 

It seems to me that bigger should be QSOLTR, because it is shortwave
radiation transmitted through window (but not kept 100% in air node).

The QTSABS is what exactly has been kept - has been absorbed by inside
surfaces.

But it is appear that QTSABS > QSOLTR.

 

Could you write me what is right interpretation of those outputs?

 

Kind regards,
Karol

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Karol BANDURSKI M. Sc.

Faculty of Civil and Environemntal Engeneering

Division of Heating, Air Conditioning and Air Protection

Poznan University of Technology

 <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Karol_Bandurski>
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Karol_Bandurski

 <http://www.put.poznan.pl/~karol.bandurski>
www.put.poznan.pl/~karol.bandurski

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/trnsys-users-onebuilding.org/attachments/20181213/80fde2c4/attachment-0001.html>


More information about the TRNSYS-users mailing list