[TRNSYS-users] minmassflowrate

Michael Döbele michael.doebele at hochschule-bc.de
Thu Jun 28 05:22:34 PDT 2012


Hello,

I did what you described and simplified that problem to its core.

Please have a look at it again

thanks,

Michael

Am 19.06.2012 20:37, schrieb David BRADLEY:
> Michael,
>   I have run into this problem as well, particularly in Trnsys16 and I 
> was not ever able to resolve it. In the end, I had to increase my 
> flowrate through the floor enough (or segment the floor enough) so 
> that the flow rate I was giving got above that threshold. My suspicion 
> is that Type56 calculates the required minimum flow at one temperature 
> and then corrects the actual flowrate for some temperature dependent 
> property during the simulation. If your example is simple enough and 
> you are willing, please send it our way so that we can try and track 
> down the cause!
> Best,
>  david
>
>
> On 6/18/2012 16:24, Michael Döbele wrote:
>> Dear TRNSSYS User,
>>
>> i am trying to run an active layer with an specific massflow rate of 
>> 15 kg/h m² (absolute value 654.15 kg/h). TRNBuild calculates a 
>> minimum allowed massflow rate of 10.25 kg/h. (446 kg/h) ....so far so 
>> good.
>> But when I set this massflow rate in TRNSYS Studio via Input to the 
>> wanted 654.15 kg/h  I get following error
>>
>> "specific fluid mass flow of active layer in surface 2 below minimum
>> value of16.26/m2h, increase the minimum mass flow rate or use
>> autosegmentation feature of TRNBuild for subdividing the surface."
>>
>> This is a really strange behavior. The massflow criteria varies and 
>> seems to depend on the inlet temperature.. I also tried 
>> autosegmentation - I didn´t help, I got the same error message.
>> Please help me out here..
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>> Michael Döbele
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TRNSYS-users mailing list
>> TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu
>> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>
> -- 
> ***************************
> David BRADLEY
> Principal
> Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
> 22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
> Madison, WI  53703 USA
>
> P:+1.608.274.2577
> F:+1.608.278.1475
> d.bradley at tess-inc.com
>
> http://www.tess-inc.com
> http://www.trnsys.com
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*********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
*  TRNBuild   2.0.167
*********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
*   BUILDING DESCRIPTIONS FILE TRNSYS
*   FOR BUILDING:   E:\01 Thesis\07 minimal example\DCK4_20120615.b17
*   GET BY WORKING WITH TRNBuild 1.0 for Windows
*********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  C o m m e n t s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  P r o j e c t
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*+++ PROJECT
*+++ TITLE=TYPRAUM FÜR UBB VERFAHREN IN TRNSYS
*+++ DESCRIPTION=ERSTELLUNG EINES GEBÄUDEMODELLS FÜR BELIEBIGE BÜROGEBÄUDE
*+++ CREATED=MICHAEL DÖBELE MIT OPENOFFICECALC
*+++ ADDRESS=UNDEFINED
*+++ CITY=88400 BIBERACH
*+++ SWITCH=UNDEFINED
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  P r o p e r t i e s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PROPERTIES
 DENSITY=1.204 : CAPACITY=1.012 : PRESSURE=101325.000 : HVAPOR=2454.0 : SIGMA=2.041e-007 : RTEMP=293.15
*--- alpha calculation -------------------
 KFLOORUP=7.2 : EFLOORUP=0.31 : KFLOORDOWN=3.888 : EFLOORDOWN=0.31
 KCEILUP=7.2 : ECEILUP=0.31 : KCEILDOWN=3.888 : ECEILDOWN=0.31
 KVERTICAL=5.76 : EVERTICAL=0.3
*
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
TYPES
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  L a y e r s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LAYER TABS1
 PSPACING=   0.15 : PDIAMETER=  0.022 : PWALLTHICKNESS= 0.0023 : PCONDUCTIVITY=   1.44 : CPFLUID= 4.18
LAYER BE_NORMALBETON_21
 CONDUCTIVITY=   7.56 : CAPACITY=      1 : DENSITY=   2100
LAYER SO_TEPPICH
 CONDUCTIVITY=  0.198 : CAPACITY=    1.3 : DENSITY=    200
LAYER SO_EINFACHGLAS
 CONDUCTIVITY=   5.04 : CAPACITY=   0.75 : DENSITY=   2200
LAYER WD_FIBER_ISULATING
 CONDUCTIVITY=   0.18 : CAPACITY=    1.4 : DENSITY=    250
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  I n p u t s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
INPUTS Z01_TABS_TETA_SW Z01_TABS_MASSFLOW Z01_QGAIN Z02_TABS_TETA_SW Z02_TABS_MASSFLOW
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  S c h e d u l e s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  W a l l s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WALL ID01
 LAYERS   = BE_NORMALBETON_21 TABS1 BE_NORMALBETON_21 SO_TEPPICH 
 THICKNESS= 0.175             0     0.175             0.005      
 ABS-FRONT= 0.6   : ABS-BACK= 0.6  
 EPS-FRONT= 0.9   : EPS-BACK= 0.9  
 HFRONT   = CEILING : HBACK= FLOOR
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  W i n d o w s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  D e f a u l t  G a i n s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  O t h e r  G a i n s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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*  C o m f o r t
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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*  I n f i l t r a t i o n
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*  V e n t i l a t i o n
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*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  C o o l i n g
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*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  H e a t i n g
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  Z o n e s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ZONES Z01 Z02
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  O r i e n t a t i o n s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ORIENTATIONS
*
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
BUILDING
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  Z o n e  Z01  /  A i r n o d e  Z01
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ZONE Z01
RADIATIONMODE
 BEAM=STANDARD : DIFFUSE=STANDARD : LONGWAVE=STANDARD : GEOMODE=MANUAL
AIRNODE Z01
WALL  =ID01       : SURF=  1 : AREA=     43.61 : ADJACENT=Z01 : ADJ_SURF=2 : FRONT : INTEMP = INPUT 1*Z01_TABS_TETA_SW : MFLOW = INPUT 1*Z01_TABS_MASSFLOW : NLOOP = 6 : MFLOWMIN = 15
WALL  =ID01       : SURF=  2 : AREA=     43.61 : ADJACENT=Z02 : ADJ_SURF=1 : BACK : INTEMP = INPUT 1*Z02_TABS_TETA_SW : MFLOW = INPUT 1*Z02_TABS_MASSFLOW : NLOOP = 6 : MFLOWMIN = 15
 REGIME
 CAPACITANCE = 233.77  : VOLUME= 194.81  : TINITIAL= 0       : PHINITIAL= 50      : WCAPR= 1
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  Z o n e  Z02  /  A i r n o d e  Z02
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ZONE Z02
RADIATIONMODE
 BEAM=STANDARD : DIFFUSE=STANDARD : LONGWAVE=STANDARD : GEOMODE=MANUAL
AIRNODE Z02
WALL  =ID01       : SURF=  3 : AREA=     44.87 : ADJACENT=Z02 : ADJ_SURF=4 : FRONT : INTEMP = INPUT 1*Z02_TABS_TETA_SW : MFLOW = INPUT 1*Z02_TABS_MASSFLOW : NLOOP = 6 : MFLOWMIN = 15
WALL  =ID01       : SURF=  4 : AREA=     44.87 : ADJACENT=Z02 : ADJ_SURF=3 : BACK : INTEMP = INPUT 1*Z02_TABS_TETA_SW : MFLOW = INPUT 1*Z02_TABS_MASSFLOW : NLOOP = 6 : MFLOWMIN = 15
 REGIME
 CAPACITANCE = 233.77  : VOLUME= 194.81  : TINITIAL= 0       : PHINITIAL= 50      : WCAPR= 1
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  O u t p u t s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OUTPUTS
 TRANSFER : TIMEBASE=1.000
 AIRNODES = Z01 
 NTYPES =  75 : QTSABS - total solar radiation absorbed at all inside surfaces of airnode
        =  25 : TOP - obsolete use new comfort outputs (Version 16: Operative temperature)
 AIRNODES = Z02 
 NTYPES =  75 : QTSABS - total solar radiation absorbed at all inside surfaces of airnode
        =  25 : TOP - obsolete use new comfort outputs (Version 16: Operative temperature)
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  T R N S F L O W Multizone Airflow Network (Model COMIS 3.1)
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
MULTIZONE_AIRFLOW_NETWORK
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*
CALCFLOWS=0
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  A d d  T R N S F L O W  C o m m a n d s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
POLLUTANTS
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*
*
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
LINKTYPES
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  C r a c k s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  F a n s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  S t r a i g h t   D u c t s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  F l o w   C o n t r o l l e r s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  L a r g e    V e r t i c a l   Openings (Windows+Doors)
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  T e s t   D a t a   C o m p o n e n t s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
NODETYPES
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  E x t e r n a l   N o d e s  (CP VALUES)
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  A u x i l i a r y   N o d e s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  T h e r m a l  Z o n e   N o d e s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  W i n d   v e  l o c i t y   p r o f i l e
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
WIND_VELOPROF
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  A i r l i n k   N e t w o r k
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
AIRLINK_NETWORK
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*  E n d
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
END

_EXTENSION_WINPOOL_START_
*** END OF LIBRARY ***
***************************************************************************************************
*WinID   Description                              Design         U-Value g-value T-sol Rf-sol T-vis
***************************************************************************************************
_EXTENSION_WINPOOL_END_

_EXTENSION_BuildingGeometry_START_

_EXTENSION_BuildingGeometry_END_


_EXTENSION_ExternalShadingGeometry_START_

_EXTENSION_ExternalShadingGeometry_END_


_EXTENSION_GeoPositionGeometry_START_
_EXTENSION_GeoPositionGeometry_END_



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