[TRNSYS-users] minmassflowrate
Michael Döbele
michael.doebele at hochschule-bc.de
Thu Jun 28 05:22:34 PDT 2012
Hello,
I did what you described and simplified that problem to its core.
Please have a look at it again
thanks,
Michael
Am 19.06.2012 20:37, schrieb David BRADLEY:
> Michael,
> I have run into this problem as well, particularly in Trnsys16 and I
> was not ever able to resolve it. In the end, I had to increase my
> flowrate through the floor enough (or segment the floor enough) so
> that the flow rate I was giving got above that threshold. My suspicion
> is that Type56 calculates the required minimum flow at one temperature
> and then corrects the actual flowrate for some temperature dependent
> property during the simulation. If your example is simple enough and
> you are willing, please send it our way so that we can try and track
> down the cause!
> Best,
> david
>
>
> On 6/18/2012 16:24, Michael Döbele wrote:
>> Dear TRNSSYS User,
>>
>> i am trying to run an active layer with an specific massflow rate of
>> 15 kg/h m² (absolute value 654.15 kg/h). TRNBuild calculates a
>> minimum allowed massflow rate of 10.25 kg/h. (446 kg/h) ....so far so
>> good.
>> But when I set this massflow rate in TRNSYS Studio via Input to the
>> wanted 654.15 kg/h I get following error
>>
>> "specific fluid mass flow of active layer in surface 2 below minimum
>> value of16.26/m2h, increase the minimum mass flow rate or use
>> autosegmentation feature of TRNBuild for subdividing the surface."
>>
>> This is a really strange behavior. The massflow criteria varies and
>> seems to depend on the inlet temperature.. I also tried
>> autosegmentation - I didn´t help, I got the same error message.
>> Please help me out here..
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>> Michael Döbele
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TRNSYS-users mailing list
>> TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu
>> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>
> --
> ***************************
> David BRADLEY
> Principal
> Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
> 22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
> Madison, WI 53703 USA
>
> P:+1.608.274.2577
> F:+1.608.278.1475
> d.bradley at tess-inc.com
>
> http://www.tess-inc.com
> http://www.trnsys.com
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*********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
* TRNBuild 2.0.167
*********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
* BUILDING DESCRIPTIONS FILE TRNSYS
* FOR BUILDING: E:\01 Thesis\07 minimal example\DCK4_20120615.b17
* GET BY WORKING WITH TRNBuild 1.0 for Windows
*********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* C o m m e n t s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* P r o j e c t
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*+++ PROJECT
*+++ TITLE=TYPRAUM FÜR UBB VERFAHREN IN TRNSYS
*+++ DESCRIPTION=ERSTELLUNG EINES GEBÄUDEMODELLS FÜR BELIEBIGE BÜROGEBÄUDE
*+++ CREATED=MICHAEL DÖBELE MIT OPENOFFICECALC
*+++ ADDRESS=UNDEFINED
*+++ CITY=88400 BIBERACH
*+++ SWITCH=UNDEFINED
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* P r o p e r t i e s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PROPERTIES
DENSITY=1.204 : CAPACITY=1.012 : PRESSURE=101325.000 : HVAPOR=2454.0 : SIGMA=2.041e-007 : RTEMP=293.15
*--- alpha calculation -------------------
KFLOORUP=7.2 : EFLOORUP=0.31 : KFLOORDOWN=3.888 : EFLOORDOWN=0.31
KCEILUP=7.2 : ECEILUP=0.31 : KCEILDOWN=3.888 : ECEILDOWN=0.31
KVERTICAL=5.76 : EVERTICAL=0.3
*
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
TYPES
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* L a y e r s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LAYER TABS1
PSPACING= 0.15 : PDIAMETER= 0.022 : PWALLTHICKNESS= 0.0023 : PCONDUCTIVITY= 1.44 : CPFLUID= 4.18
LAYER BE_NORMALBETON_21
CONDUCTIVITY= 7.56 : CAPACITY= 1 : DENSITY= 2100
LAYER SO_TEPPICH
CONDUCTIVITY= 0.198 : CAPACITY= 1.3 : DENSITY= 200
LAYER SO_EINFACHGLAS
CONDUCTIVITY= 5.04 : CAPACITY= 0.75 : DENSITY= 2200
LAYER WD_FIBER_ISULATING
CONDUCTIVITY= 0.18 : CAPACITY= 1.4 : DENSITY= 250
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* I n p u t s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
INPUTS Z01_TABS_TETA_SW Z01_TABS_MASSFLOW Z01_QGAIN Z02_TABS_TETA_SW Z02_TABS_MASSFLOW
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* S c h e d u l e s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* W a l l s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WALL ID01
LAYERS = BE_NORMALBETON_21 TABS1 BE_NORMALBETON_21 SO_TEPPICH
THICKNESS= 0.175 0 0.175 0.005
ABS-FRONT= 0.6 : ABS-BACK= 0.6
EPS-FRONT= 0.9 : EPS-BACK= 0.9
HFRONT = CEILING : HBACK= FLOOR
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* W i n d o w s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* D e f a u l t G a i n s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* O t h e r G a i n s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* C o m f o r t
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* I n f i l t r a t i o n
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* V e n t i l a t i o n
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* C o o l i n g
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* H e a t i n g
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Z o n e s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ZONES Z01 Z02
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* O r i e n t a t i o n s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ORIENTATIONS
*
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
BUILDING
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Z o n e Z01 / A i r n o d e Z01
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ZONE Z01
RADIATIONMODE
BEAM=STANDARD : DIFFUSE=STANDARD : LONGWAVE=STANDARD : GEOMODE=MANUAL
AIRNODE Z01
WALL =ID01 : SURF= 1 : AREA= 43.61 : ADJACENT=Z01 : ADJ_SURF=2 : FRONT : INTEMP = INPUT 1*Z01_TABS_TETA_SW : MFLOW = INPUT 1*Z01_TABS_MASSFLOW : NLOOP = 6 : MFLOWMIN = 15
WALL =ID01 : SURF= 2 : AREA= 43.61 : ADJACENT=Z02 : ADJ_SURF=1 : BACK : INTEMP = INPUT 1*Z02_TABS_TETA_SW : MFLOW = INPUT 1*Z02_TABS_MASSFLOW : NLOOP = 6 : MFLOWMIN = 15
REGIME
CAPACITANCE = 233.77 : VOLUME= 194.81 : TINITIAL= 0 : PHINITIAL= 50 : WCAPR= 1
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Z o n e Z02 / A i r n o d e Z02
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ZONE Z02
RADIATIONMODE
BEAM=STANDARD : DIFFUSE=STANDARD : LONGWAVE=STANDARD : GEOMODE=MANUAL
AIRNODE Z02
WALL =ID01 : SURF= 3 : AREA= 44.87 : ADJACENT=Z02 : ADJ_SURF=4 : FRONT : INTEMP = INPUT 1*Z02_TABS_TETA_SW : MFLOW = INPUT 1*Z02_TABS_MASSFLOW : NLOOP = 6 : MFLOWMIN = 15
WALL =ID01 : SURF= 4 : AREA= 44.87 : ADJACENT=Z02 : ADJ_SURF=3 : BACK : INTEMP = INPUT 1*Z02_TABS_TETA_SW : MFLOW = INPUT 1*Z02_TABS_MASSFLOW : NLOOP = 6 : MFLOWMIN = 15
REGIME
CAPACITANCE = 233.77 : VOLUME= 194.81 : TINITIAL= 0 : PHINITIAL= 50 : WCAPR= 1
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* O u t p u t s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OUTPUTS
TRANSFER : TIMEBASE=1.000
AIRNODES = Z01
NTYPES = 75 : QTSABS - total solar radiation absorbed at all inside surfaces of airnode
= 25 : TOP - obsolete use new comfort outputs (Version 16: Operative temperature)
AIRNODES = Z02
NTYPES = 75 : QTSABS - total solar radiation absorbed at all inside surfaces of airnode
= 25 : TOP - obsolete use new comfort outputs (Version 16: Operative temperature)
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* T R N S F L O W Multizone Airflow Network (Model COMIS 3.1)
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
MULTIZONE_AIRFLOW_NETWORK
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*
CALCFLOWS=0
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* A d d T R N S F L O W C o m m a n d s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
POLLUTANTS
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*
*
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
LINKTYPES
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* C r a c k s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* F a n s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* S t r a i g h t D u c t s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* F l o w C o n t r o l l e r s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* L a r g e V e r t i c a l Openings (Windows+Doors)
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* T e s t D a t a C o m p o n e n t s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
NODETYPES
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* E x t e r n a l N o d e s (CP VALUES)
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* A u x i l i a r y N o d e s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* T h e r m a l Z o n e N o d e s
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* W i n d v e l o c i t y p r o f i l e
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
WIND_VELOPROF
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* A i r l i n k N e t w o r k
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
AIRLINK_NETWORK
*++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* E n d
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
END
_EXTENSION_WINPOOL_START_
*** END OF LIBRARY ***
***************************************************************************************************
*WinID Description Design U-Value g-value T-sol Rf-sol T-vis
***************************************************************************************************
_EXTENSION_WINPOOL_END_
_EXTENSION_BuildingGeometry_START_
_EXTENSION_BuildingGeometry_END_
_EXTENSION_ExternalShadingGeometry_START_
_EXTENSION_ExternalShadingGeometry_END_
_EXTENSION_GeoPositionGeometry_START_
_EXTENSION_GeoPositionGeometry_END_
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