[TRNSYS-users] PID controller in TRNSYS developer
王洋
wanghongyang1767 at gmail.com
Tue Nov 15 09:20:38 PST 2011
Dear David,
Many thanks for your reply!
I already saw both of them as you mentioned, however, they are not helpful
for my simulation results i.e. they don't explain the things I wanted.
Your heating/cooling example is very vivid. Do you mean I need add an
equation after the PID i.e. link PID's output Control Signal to a minus 1
then to OF?
Now, I only would like a solution for this problem as I said in last email
and the adequate explanations for this OF_CO2 concentration_PID control
issue.
Many thanks in advance!
br
wang
2011/11/14 David BRADLEY <d.bradley at tess-inc.com>
> Wang,
> You should already have the source code for the PID controller in
> ..\TrnsysXX\SourceCode\Types\. I would also recommend reading the Type23
> section of the 04-MathematicalDescription manual.
>
> PID controllers can operate in one of two ways: they can generate a
> greater signal value if the sampled input value is below the set point or
> they can generate a greater signal value if the sampled input is above the
> current set point. Imagine a heating application with a PID controller. As
> the zone temperature falls, you want the PID to give you a bigger and
> bigger signal. Now imagine a cooling application. As the zone temperature
> rises, you want the PID to give you a bigger and bigger signal. You may
> have to add an equation after the PID to invert its control signal if it is
> acting the opposite of the way that you want.
>
> David
>
>
> On 11/14/2011 04:28, wangyang wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> I have a question about PID controller in TRNSYS for its developer.
>
> Which expert knows PID controller in TRNSYS developer? Or Which expert
> could pass me the source code of PID controller or its internal algorithm
> etc.? I guess PID controller in TRNSYS is based on empirical equation or
> iterative algorithm. Since there is *very weird* simulation results i.e.
> I set the set point CO2 concentration 1000 ppm as PID controller's set
> point; its control signal links to Opening Factor (OF) of windows; indoor
> CO2 concentration links to PID's controlled variable. However, when indoor
> CO2 concentration is less than set point 1000 ppm, PID begins to activate
> OF i.e. windows are open. But based on PID principle, as we know, if CO2
> concentration is not getting to set point 1000 ppm, at this time windows
> are open will result in *the ERROR* (between the set point and actual
> indoor CO2 concentration)* increasing. *So I'm puzzled! Please PID
> controller in TRNSYS developer or other experts explain this weird
> phenomenon!
> Many thanks in advance!
>
> br
>
> wang
>
>
> 2011/11/12 <trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu>
>
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>> 1. Re: (no subject) (David BRADLEY)
>> 2. Re: TRNSYS3D Shading on Walls? (David BRADLEY)
>> 3. Re: how to identify a wall that is adjacent two walls
>> (David BRADLEY)
>> 4. Error in reading type 51 external performance File
>> (Walif M'kacher)
>>
>>
>> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>> From: David BRADLEY <d.bradley at tess-inc.com>
>> To: Erik Boschek <erikboschek at yahoo.com>
>> Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 12:01:47 -0600
>> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] (no subject)
>> Erik,
>> You are right on with all three of your points. For reference, we
>> discontinued use of Type109 in Trnsys17 in favor of option 2 (Type15),
>> which is correct from an energy perspective even though it isn't a smooth
>> curve. In gernal think that a control strategy that relies only on the
>> instantaneous DNI as its input might run into trouble not only in
>> simulation but also in the real world; clouds pass in front of the sun
>> rapidly sometimes. While I won't pretend that the "spiky" profile that
>> Type15 generates is totally realistic, I think it is a fairly accurate
>> representation of DNI. Bear in mind that Type15 is trying to reconstruct a
>> minute by minute radiation profile based only on 1 number and to do so
>> correctly for all possible climate types. You might consider a control
>> strategy that uses the output of Type15 but put through a running-average
>> component so that your control decisions are based on a somewhat more
>> stable (smoother) profile.
>> Best,
>> David
>>
>>
>> On 11/11/2011 00:32, Erik Boschek wrote:
>>
>>
>> Dear TRNSYS users,
>>
>> I have a simple question regarding weather reading and interpolating
>> direct normal radiation (DNI) values for time steps less than an hour.
>>
>> As long as I have been using TRNSYS (using TRNSYS 16.1) I have understood
>> this can be done in a few ways as follows, including the consequence for an
>> example TM2 file (see attached screen shot for clarification):
>>
>> 1.) Do not interpolate, using Type 15 with output DNR (not interpolated):
>> you end up with a "steppy" profile
>> 2.) Using Type 15, but with 2-axis tracking and the output "Beam
>> radiation for surface": you get a discontinuous "spikey" profile, but the
>> integration of energy across the hour is respected
>> 3.) Same as 2, but using Type109-TMY2: You get a smooth profile, but
>> often there appear inexplicable spikes at the beginning or end of the day.
>> The one in the plot obviously is an extreme case.
>>
>> For reference: I just used the Daggett profile "US-CA-Daggett-23161.tm2"
>> which came with TRNSYS, but the behavior is not specific to this file.
>>
>> Generally, I have been using 2, but it can cause problems if there is,
>> for example, some triggering function based on DNI and the DNI hovers
>> around the threshold. Is there another option for getting a smoother
>> profile or is it best just to not interpolate? Any opinions? Feel free to
>> point me to an earlier post on this topic in case I missed it.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Erik Boschek
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TRNSYS-users mailing listTRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.eduhttps://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>>
>>
>> --
>> ***************************
>> David BRADLEY
>> Principal
>> Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
>> 22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
>> Madison, WI 53703 USA
>>
>> P:+1.608.274.2577
>> F:+1.608.278.1475d.bradley at tess-inc.com
>> http://www.tess-inc.comhttp://www.trnsys.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>> From: David BRADLEY <d.bradley at tess-inc.com>
>> To: Marion Hiller <hiller at transsolar.com>
>> Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 12:03:16 -0600
>> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] TRNSYS3D Shading on Walls?
>> TRNSYS-users,
>> My apologies; my reply to Graham was incorrect; as Marion says, only the
>> windows are affected.
>> Kind regards,
>> David
>>
>>
>> On 11/11/2011 01:33, Marion Hiller wrote:
>>
>>> Graham,
>>>
>>> the shading defined in Trnsys3D effects only windows.
>>>
>>> Marion
>>>
>>> Dipl.-Ing. Marion Hiller
>>> TRANSSOLAR: KlimaEngineering - Technologien für energieeffizientes Bauen
>>> und Nutzerkomfort in Gebäude
>>> Munich - New York - Stuttgart + 49.711.67976.0
>>>
>>> Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH, Curiestrasse 2, 70563 Stuttgart
>>> Amtsgericht Stuttgart - HRB 23347, Steuernummer 99073/00911, USt-IdNr.:
>>> DE152272639
>>> Geschäftsführer: Dipl.Ing. Matthias Schuler, Dipl.Ing. Thomas Auer,
>>> Dipl.Phys. Stefan Holst, Prof. Dipl.-Ing. Bleicher
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>> Von: Graham Linn [mailto:grahamjlinn at gmail.com]
>>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 10. November 2011 21:49
>>> An: trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
>>> Betreff: [TRNSYS-users] TRNSYS3D Shading on Walls?
>>>
>>> Hello TRNSYS users,
>>>
>>> I have a question about shading in TRNSYS3D. Does a shading object
>>> affect how much insolation hits the entire building or just the
>>> windows on the building?
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>> Graham
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>> --
>> ***************************
>> David BRADLEY
>> Principal
>> Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
>> 22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
>> Madison, WI 53703 USA
>>
>> P:+1.608.274.2577
>> F:+1.608.278.1475
>> d.bradley at tess-inc.com
>>
>> http://www.tess-inc.com
>> http://www.trnsys.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>> From: David BRADLEY <d.bradley at tess-inc.com>
>> To: Nidal Abdalla <nidalabdalla at yahoo.com>
>> Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 12:29:48 -0600
>> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] how to identify a wall that is adjacent two
>> walls
>> Nidal,
>> You have to be a little careful here. If you have a wall in zone 1,
>> half of which is adjacent to zone 2 and half of which is adjacent to zone
>> 3, you actually need to draw the wall as two walls in zone 1. Trnsys3D
>> requires the user to be quite vigilant about manually setting adjacencies.
>> You need to draw the ADJACENT wall in both zones and you need to open the
>> object window for each of them, set the construction to ADJ_WALL, set the
>> "outside boundary condition" to "Zone" and then manually select the zone to
>> which it is adjacent in the "outside boundary object" field.
>>
>> If you have been very careful about drawing your ADJACENT walls so that
>> they have exactly the same verticies in both zones to which they belong,
>> you can then select the menu item: Plugins: Trnsys3d: Surface Matching and
>> click the "match in entire model" button.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> David
>>
>>
>> On 11/11/2011 08:32, Nidal Abdalla wrote:
>>
>> I drew a house using Trnsys3d that consists of: 3 bed rooms, living
>> room, guest room and bath . The house was divided into 6 zones. Wall_zone5,
>> for example, is adjacent two walls for two different zones. I am wondering
>> how to identify a wall (using Object Info) that is adjacent two or more
>> walls of diff. zones.
>>
>> Best Regards
>>
>> Nidal Abdalla
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TRNSYS-users mailing listTRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.eduhttps://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>>
>>
>> --
>> ***************************
>> David BRADLEY
>> Principal
>> Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
>> 22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
>> Madison, WI 53703 USA
>>
>> P:+1.608.274.2577
>> F:+1.608.278.1475d.bradley at tess-inc.com
>> http://www.tess-inc.comhttp://www.trnsys.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>> From: "Walif M'kacher" <walif.mkacher at gmail.com>
>> To: trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
>> Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 15:13:05 +0100
>> Subject: [TRNSYS-users] Error in reading type 51 external performance File
>>
>> Dear TRNSys Users,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have a problem with external file of type 51a (cooling tower with an
>> external performance File):
>>
>>
>> That the simulation with this type causes error and this can't read this
>> external file (.txt)
>>
>>
>>
>> Would you please help me how to correct the file joined or send me a
>> truth format of this .txt file
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Many thanks in advance
>>
>>
>>
>> *Mkacher Walif*
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TRNSYS-users mailing list
>> TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu
>> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TRNSYS-users mailing listTRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.eduhttps://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>
>
> --
> ***************************
> David BRADLEY
> Principal
> Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
> 22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
> Madison, WI 53703 USA
>
> P:+1.608.274.2577
> F:+1.608.278.1475d.bradley at tess-inc.com
> http://www.tess-inc.comhttp://www.trnsys.com
>
>
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