[TRNSYS-users] ideal heating position in TRNBUILD
David BRADLEY
d.bradley at tess-inc.com
Thu Feb 24 12:45:51 PST 2011
In Type56 a zone is defined as an volume of the building that can be
defined by a single temperature. When you define an "ideal" heating type
in TRNBuild, you are defining the zone temperature and you are allowing
the model to calculate the amount of energy required to keep the zone at
that temperature. Thus the placement of the heating is irrelevant. It is
idealized, it can provide as much or as little energy as needed whenever
it is needed in order to keep the zone at the temperature you specify.
Regards,
David
On 2/24/2011 08:48, � wrote:
> Dear all,
> To ideal heating in TRNBUILD: Where is this heating? Can I define its
> position? If so, how to define its position? How is the ideal
> heating operating or working?
> thanks !
> br.
> wy
>
> 在 2011年2月24日 下午3:24， <trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu
> <mailto:trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu>>写 道：
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Problems with calling EES (Type66a) (Doms Joris)
> 2. Re: RADIATIVE PART of Heating (??)
>
>
> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
> From: Doms Joris <joris.doms at vito.be <mailto:joris.doms at vito.be>>
> To: David BRADLEY <d.bradley at tess-inc.com
> <mailto:d.bradley at tess-inc.com>>
> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:17:49 +0100
> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Problems with calling EES (Type66a)
> David,
> Thank you for the reply. The EES project was defenately openening
> and closing, but EES itself stayed open. I fixed this problem now
> with changing the pad for the EES project from
> "c:\xxx\xxx\hydraulics\EES.ees" to "\hydrolics\EES.ees".
> But now it seems that EES-TRNSYS coupling has a limited number of
> outputs, is this correct? When I run a long simulation with alot
> of timesteps, the simulation stops after a while, I think it is
> after 66000 timesteps with 20 inputs and 40 outputs with the
> EES-TRNSYS coupling. Is there a solution for this?
> Using another type is no option as I need to make calcultation
> with EES at every timestep.
> Many thanks
> Joris Doms
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Van:* David BRADLEY [d.bradley at tess-inc.com
> <mailto:d.bradley at tess-inc.com>]
> *Verzonden:* dinsdag 22 februari 2011 23:40
> *Aan:* Doms Joris
> *CC:* trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu <mailto:trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
> *Onderwerp:* Re: [TRNSYS-users] Problems with calling EES (Type66a)
>
> Joris,
> It isn't actually the opening and closing that takes time (EES
> stays running the whole time). The slowness is the EES calculation
> time and the fact that EES is called at every single timestep and
> at every single iteration within a timestep of your TRNSYS
> simulation. There are a few different versions of Type66 that
> allow you to avoid calling EES whenever possible (basically an
> input that is an on/off switch for the EES calculations). If you
> know that your EES program doesn't have to be called (because the
> device that it models is inactive) then you can "turn off" the
> call to Type66 and save some time. Take a look at the EES example
> in the ..\TrnsysXX\Examples\Calling_EES\ directory; all the
> different options are shown in there.
> Kind regards,
> David
>
>
> On 2/20/2011 15:43, Doms Joris wrote:
>
> Dear TRNSYS users,
> When simulating an applied thermal system, I'm using EES for
> the hydronic part. I programmed the hydronic circuit in EES
> and coupled it with TRNSYS via Type 66a. This coupling works
> fine, but;
> The problem is that the simulation runs very slow. Every
> timestep that TRNSYS calls EES, the EES project is opened and
> closed. Is there a way to set some settings so EES isen't
> closed and reopened each time, this would minimize the
> solution time alot.
> Thanks on advance
> Joris Doms
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail, any attachments and the information it contains
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>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> --
> ***************************
> David BRADLEY
> Principal
> Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
> 22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
> Madison, WI 53703 USA
>
> P:+1.608.274.2577
> F:+1.608.278.1475
> d.bradley at tess-inc.com <mailto:d.bradley at tess-inc.com>
>
> http://www.tess-inc.com <http://www.tess-inc.com/>
> http://www.trnsys.com <http://www.trnsys.com/>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail, any attachments and the information it contains are
> confidential and meant only for the use of the addressee(s) only.
> Access to this e-mail by anyone other than the addressee(s) is
> unauthorized. If you are not the intended addressee (or
> responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may
> not use, copy, distribute or deliver to anyone this message (or
> any part of its contents) or take any action in reliance on it.
> In such case, you should destroy this message and notify the
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>
>
> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
> From: 王洋 <wanghongyang1767 at gmail.com
> <mailto:wanghongyang1767 at gmail.com>>
> To: duffy at tess-inc.com <mailto:duffy at tess-inc.com>
> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:24:08 +0100
> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] RADIATIVE PART of Heating
> Dear Mr. Duffy,
> Many thanks for your reply!
> I’m so sorry for sending multiple identical emails to
> the TRNSYS users mailing list. Because I'm very anxious not to get
> those answers, that's some tasks my professor gave me, I must
> finish them these days. So I still have no other way to do with
> them after asking other guys, then I sent multiple identical
> emails to the TRNSYS users mailing list.
> sorry again!
> Br.
> wang
>
>
> 2011/2/23 Matt Duffy <duffy at tess-inc.com <mailto:duffy at tess-inc.com>>
>
>
>
> Dear Wang,
>
>
> The following document has information about radiator/convector.
>
> ASHRAE, 2004 ASHRAE Handbook: HVAC Systems and Equipment,
> ASHRAE, Atlanta
>
> Perhaps a basic heat transfer text, such as Incropera and
> Dewitt, may have information as well.
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Matt Duffy
>
>
>
>
> *----- Original Message -----*
> *From:* "王洋" <wanghongyang1767 at gmail.com
> <mailto:wanghongyang1767 at gmail.com>>
> *Sent:* Wed, February 23, 2011 15:22
> *Subject:* [TRNSYS-users] RADIATIVE PART of Heating
>
> Dear all,
>
> I want to make sure the exact value about RADIATIVE PART in
> the TRNBUILD Heating option. e.g. What's the exact RADIATIVE
> PART or Convection Part value of the wall heating and radiator
> and convector?
>
> Or Please introduce me some TRNSYS references and literature
> about RADIATIVE PART or Convection Part value of the wall
> heating and radiator and convector etc.
>
>
>
>
> Please introduce me some best English books about the
> heating(radiator, convector, Wandheizung and floor heating)
> operating or working fundamentals etc., walls' thermal energy
> storage and materials' pyhsics property etc., the infiltration
> and ventilation etc. and our this research topic's literatures
> we must read.
>
>
> many thanks!
>
> Br.
>
> wang
>
>
> 在 2011年2月23日 上午11:01，王洋 <wanghongyang1767 at gmail.com
> <mailto:wanghongyang1767 at gmail.com>>写 道：
>
> Dear all,
>
> I want to make sure the exact value about RADIATIVE PART
> in the TRNBUILD Heating option. e.g. What's the exact
> RADIATIVE PART or Convection Part value of the wall
> heating and radiator and convector?
>
> Or Please introduce me some TRNSYS references and
> literature about RADIATIVE PART or Convection Part value
> of the wall heating and radiator and convector etc.
>
>
>
>
> Please introduce me some best English books about the
> heating(radiator, convector, Wandheizung and floor
> heating) operating or working fundamentals etc., walls'
> thermal energy storage and materials' pyhsics property
> etc., the infiltration and ventilation etc. and our this
> research topic's literatures we must read.
>
>
> many thanks!
>
> Br.
>
> wang
>
> 2011/2/23 <trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu
> <mailto:trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu>>
>
> Send TRNSYS-users mailing list submissions to
> trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
> <mailto:trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body
> 'help' to
> trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu
> <mailto:trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu>
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> trnsys-users-owner at cae.wisc.edu
> <mailto:trnsys-users-owner at cae.wisc.edu>
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is
> more specific
> than "Re: Contents of TRNSYS-users digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Problems with calling EES (Type66a) (David
> BRADLEY)
> 2. Re: Type66 EES and TRNSYS (David BRADLEY)
> 3. Re: acceptable temperature range (Fred Betz)
>
>
> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
> From: David BRADLEY <d.bradley at tess-inc.com
> <mailto:d.bradley at tess-inc.com>>
> To: Doms Joris <joris.doms at vito.be
> <mailto:joris.doms at vito.be>>
> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 16:40:04 -0600
> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Problems with calling EES
> (Type66a)
> Joris,
> It isn't actually the opening and closing that takes
> time (EES stays running the whole time). The slowness
> is the EES calculation time and the fact that EES is
> called at every single timestep and at every single
> iteration within a timestep of your TRNSYS simulation.
> There are a few different versions of Type66 that
> allow you to avoid calling EES whenever possible
> (basically an input that is an on/off switch for the
> EES calculations). If you know that your EES program
> doesn't have to be called (because the device that it
> models is inactive) then you can "turn off" the call
> to Type66 and save some time. Take a look at the EES
> example in the ..\TrnsysXX\Examples\Calling_EES\
> directory; all the different options are shown in there.
> Kind regards,
> David
>
>
> On 2/20/2011 15:43, Doms Joris wrote:
>> Dear TRNSYS users,
>> When simulating an applied thermal system, I'm using
>> EES for the hydronic part. I programmed the hydronic
>> circuit in EES and coupled it with TRNSYS via Type
>> 66a. This coupling works fine, but;
>> The problem is that the simulation runs very slow.
>> Every timestep that TRNSYS calls EES, the EES project
>> is opened and closed. Is there a way to set some
>> settings so EES isen't closed and reopened each time,
>> this would minimize the solution time alot.
>> Thanks on advance
>> Joris Doms
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> This e-mail, any attachments and the information it
>> contains are confidential and meant only for the use
>> of the addressee(s) only. Access to this e-mail by
>> anyone other than the addressee(s) is unauthorized.
>> If you are not the intended addressee (or responsible
>> for delivery of the message to such person), you may
>> not use, copy, distribute or deliver to anyone this
>> message (or any part of its contents) or take any
>> action in reliance on it. In such case, you should
>> destroy this message and notify the sender
>> immediately. If you have received this e-mail in
>> error, please notify us immediately by e-mail or
>> telephone and delete the e-mail from any computer.
>> All reasonable precautions have been taken to ensure
>> no viruses are present in this e-mail and its
>> attachments. As our company cannot accept
>> responsibility for any loss or damage arising from
>> the use of this e-mail or attachments we recommend
>> that you subject these to your virus checking
>> procedures prior to use.
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TRNSYS-users mailing list
>> TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu <mailto:TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu>
>> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>>
>
> --
> ***************************
> David BRADLEY
> Principal
> Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
> 22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
> Madison, WI 53703 USA
>
> P:+1.608.274.2577
> F:+1.608.278.1475
> d.bradley at tess-inc.com <mailto:d.bradley at tess-inc.com>
>
> http://www.tess-inc.com <http://www.tess-inc.com/>
> http://www.trnsys.com <http://www.trnsys.com/>
>
>
>
> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
> From: David BRADLEY <d.bradley at tess-inc.com
> <mailto:d.bradley at tess-inc.com>>
> To: Simon Binnemans <simon.binnemans at khk.be
> <mailto:simon.binnemans at khk.be>>
> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 16:57:40 -0600
> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Type66 EES and TRNSYS
> Simon,
> If you would be willing to send me your TRNSYS project
> and EES code, I could probably debug it and find out
> why changing the size of szdelivertext isn't solving
> it. It may be that there is a limitation on the EES
> side of the connection as well; please don't quote me
> on that though until I get to look at it!
> Kind regards,
> David
>
>
> On 2/16/2011 04:36, Simon Binnemans wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> I am currently using the Type66 object for
> exchanging data between TRNSYS and ees.
> At first it worked very well, but when I want to
> receive more than 34 inputs from ees, TRNSYS alway
> generates an error: "Error converting clipboard
> data to numbers."
> After searching for this problem, I found that the
> problem was situated in the Type66 component,
> which only reads the first 512 characters from the
> clipboard. The suggested solution was to modify
> the value of szdelivertext to a higher number and
> recompile
> it.(https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/pipermail/trnsys-users/2009/004540.html)
> I modified the value of szdelivertext to 40 000 in
> stead of the standard 4000, but the result stayed
> the same.
>
> Can anyone suggest a solution for this problem?
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> --
> ***************************
> David BRADLEY
> Principal
> Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
> 22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
> Madison, WI 53703 USA
>
> P:+1.608.274.2577
> F:+1.608.278.1475
> d.bradley at tess-inc.com <mailto:d.bradley at tess-inc.com>
>
> http://www.tess-inc.com <http://www.tess-inc.com/>
> http://www.trnsys.com <http://www.trnsys.com/>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
> From: Fred Betz <fbetz at aeieng.com
> <mailto:fbetz at aeieng.com>>
> To: Shahrdad JavidRad <shahrdad at live.de
> <mailto:shahrdad at live.de>>, TRNSYS USERS
> <trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
> <mailto:trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>>
> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 17:42:26 -0600
> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] acceptable temperature range
>
> You’ll probably be better off using a simple feedback
> controller rather than an equation block because you
> can get frequent starts and stops or non-convergence
> warnings.
>
> Also, that’s a pretty large temperature range to
> operate over. Are you driving an absorption chiller
> with those temperatures?
>
> You might be better off controlling a variable speed
> pump to maintain your temperature range rather than
> shutting the pump off when the temperature exceeds
> 80C. If you shut off the pump when the temperature is
> over 80C, you risk exceeding the stagnation
> temperature of your panels in the real world.
>
> There is a solar thermal panel in the TESS libraries
> that has a built in controller that has an output for
> a variable speed pump that works really well.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Fred
>
> *Fred Betz***PhD., LEED AP
> Sustainable Systems Analyst
>
>
>
>
>
> *AEI*| AFFILIATED ENGINEERS, INC.
> 5802 Research Park Blvd. | Madison, WI 53719
>
> P: 608.236.1175 | F: 608.238.2614
> fbetz at aeieng.com <mailto:fbetz at aeieng.com> |
> *www.aeieng.com <http://www.aeieng.com/>*
>
> *From:*Shahrdad JavidRad [mailto:shahrdad at live.de
> <mailto:shahrdad at live.de>]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 22, 2011 12:11 PM
> *To:* TRNSYS USERS
> *Subject:* [TRNSYS-users] acceptable temperature range
>
>
> Hello,
>
> in my solar thermal system Iwant to define an
> acceptable interval for the collector outlet
> temperature [65-80°C] by giving an output signal=1 for
> the pump in the collector loop. For any other
> temperatures out of this range the signal should be=0
>
> Forthispurpose I am using an Equation block!! (Is
> there any controller, that is able to do it?)
>
> I have defined these variables as:
>
> T_min=65
> T_max=80
> T_out= collector outlet temperature
>
> Signal=AND(GT(T_out,T_min),LT(T_out,T_max))*1+(1-AND(GT(T_out,T_min),LT(T_out,T_max)))*0
>
> I have plotted the signal. It works fine but I am
> experiencing a very long simulation time. More than 15
> minutes just for a week.
>
> Is there any idea?
>
> Thanks,
> Shahrdad
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TRNSYS-users mailing list
> TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu
> <mailto:TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu>
> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TRNSYS-users mailing list
> TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu
> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TRNSYS-users mailing list
> TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu <mailto:TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu>
> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TRNSYS-users mailing list
> TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu
> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
--
***************************
David BRADLEY
Principal
Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
Madison, WI 53703 USA
P:+1.608.274.2577
F:+1.608.278.1475
d.bradley at tess-inc.com
http://www.tess-inc.com
http://www.trnsys.com
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