[TRNSYS-users] zone thermal time constant

David BRADLEY d.bradley at tess-inc.com
Wed Nov 3 10:24:52 PDT 2010


Wang,
  TRNBuild calculates the coefficients of a transfer function that 
describes the way in which energy is transferred through a given wall. 
The transfer function is basically an infinite series and each 
coefficient is a multiplier on a particular term in the transfer 
function (an example of one of the terms is the temperature difference 
across the wall). Time is discretized into steps backwards through the 
wall's history; the step size is called the time base. For example, if 
the time base is 1 hour then coefficient multipliers for each term in 
the transfer function will be computed for now, 1 hour ago, 2 hours ago, 
3 hours ago etc.
Regards,
  David


On 11/3/2010 09:46, 王洋 wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>   What's the difference between the time base of transfer function ( 
> in Outputs of TRNBuild ) and Zone thermal time constant?
> Are they the same? If different, how to calculate the zone thermal 
> time constant? based on which parameters?
> Many thanks!
> br.
> wang
>
> 2010/11/3 <trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu 
> <mailto:trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu>>
>
>     Send TRNSYS-users mailing list submissions to
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>
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>     trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu
>     <mailto:trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu>
>
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>
>     When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>     than "Re: Contents of TRNSYS-users digest..."
>
>     Today's Topics:
>
>       1. How to calculate the zone thermal time constant & air volume
>          flow of opening (=?GB2312?B?zfXR8w==?=)
>
>
>     ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>     From: 王洋 <wanghongyang1767 at gmail.com
>     <mailto:wanghongyang1767 at gmail.com>>
>     To: trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu <mailto:trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
>     Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 15:29:36 +0100
>     Subject: [TRNSYS-users] How to calculate the zone thermal time
>     constant & air volume flow of opening
>     Dear all,
>     1. How to calculate or find the thermal time constant of zone in
>     TRNSYS software?
>
>     ---------- WALL TYPE BST_FL_HEAT_W1      ----------
>
>            THERMAL CONDUCTANCE, U=    67.80000 kJ/h m2K; U-Wert=    
>     4.48235 W/m2K
>                   (incl. alpha_i=7.7 W/m^2 K and alpha_o=25 W/m^2 K)
>
>                             TRANSFERFUNCTION COEFFICIENTS
>        K            A              B              C              D
>
>        0       1.7050117E+02    2.1087019E+01    1.7050117E+02   
>     1.0000000E+00
>        1      -1.1800059E+02    3.5808933E+01   -1.1800059E+02  
>     -1.3683139E-01
>        2       6.0267372E+00    1.6298573E+00    6.0267372E+00   
>     4.7362566E-05
>        3      -1.2736107E-03    2.3363784E-04   -1.2736107E-03
>       SUM      5.8526043E+01    5.8526043E+01    5.8526043E+01   
>     8.6321597E-01
>
>     What's meaning of A B C D? Are they Wall's TRANSFERFUNCTION
>     COEFFICIENTS? And what is the thermal time constant of the whole
>     zone? How to calculate or find the thermal time constant of the
>     whole zone in TRNSYS software?
>     Need I   calculate by myself the whole zone's TRANSFERFUNCTION
>     based on all the walls of the zone or others?
>     2.  How to calculate or find air volume flow of the window
>     opening in TRNFlow software?
>     The window opening area (m2)is known. Whether it needs the wind
>     speed(m/s) or not?
>     Many thanks!
>     Br.
>     wang
>     2010/11/3 <trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu
>     <mailto:trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu>>
>
>         Send TRNSYS-users mailing list submissions to
>         trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu <mailto:trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
>
>         To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/trnsys-users
>         or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu
>         <mailto:trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu>
>
>         You can reach the person managing the list at
>         trnsys-users-owner at cae.wisc.edu
>         <mailto:trnsys-users-owner at cae.wisc.edu>
>
>         When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
>         specific
>         than "Re: Contents of TRNSYS-users digest..."
>
>         Today's Topics:
>
>           1. Re: GenOpt optimization: problem for the second generation
>              after 5 simulations (Thibaut VITTE)
>           2. Re: google sketchup+trnsys3d (hotline)
>           3. input file (Emiliano Casati - 3ME)
>           4. Re: GenOpt optimization: problem for the secondgeneration
>              after 5 simulations (Timothy McDowell)
>
>
>         ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>         From: Thibaut VITTE <thibaut.vitte at h3c-energies.fr
>         <mailto:thibaut.vitte at h3c-energies.fr>>
>         To: trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu <mailto:trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
>         Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 11:27:53 +0100
>         Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] GenOpt optimization: problem for
>         the second generation after 5 simulations
>         Dear Alexis,
>
>         I've had a similar error when I used Genopt. I've had several
>         components tracked by a "trace" command that made my list file
>         enormous (more than 100Mb) and genopt could'nt handle that
>         amount of data.
>
>         Just my 2cents.
>
>         Thibaut
>         -- 
>
>         Le futur maîtrisé
>
>         	
>         	
>
>         Thibaut VITTE
>
>         Docteur - Ingénieur Energies
>
>         Mail : thibaut.vitte at h3c-energies.fr
>         <mailto:thibaut.vitte at h3c-energies.fr>
>
>         -----------------------------
>
>         H3C-énergies
>
>         35, chemin du vieux Chêne - 38240 MEYLAN
>
>         Tél : 04 76 41 88 66– Fax : 04 76 41 28 94
>
>         www.h3c-energies.fr <http://www.h3c-energies.fr/>
>
>         	
>
>         -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>         Afin de contribuer au respect de l'environnement, merci de
>         n'imprimer ce message qu'en cas de nécessité.
>
>         In order to respect the environment, please don't print this
>         e-mail unless you really need to.
>
>
>
>         ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>         From: "hotline" <hotline at transsolar.com
>         <mailto:hotline at transsolar.com>>
>         To: "julia.feste" <julia.feste at whitepavilion.com.cn
>         <mailto:julia.feste at whitepavilion.com.cn>>
>         Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 11:37:08 +0100
>         Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] google sketchup+trnsys3d
>         Hi,
>
>         that's a well known problem that will be fixed in the next
>         version.
>         Hopefully upcoming within the next weeks.
>
>         Regards
>         Christian
>
>         TRANSSOLAR Software Team
>         hotline at transsolar.com <mailto:hotline at transsolar.com>
>
>         www.trnsys.de <http://www.trnsys.de/>
>         Transsolar KlimaEngineering - Technologien für
>         energieeffizientes Bauen
>         und Nutzerkomfort in Gebäuden
>         Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH, Curiestrasse 2, 70563 Stuttgart /
>         Amtsgericht Stuttgart - HRB 23347 / USt-IdNr.: 99073/00911
>         Geschäftsführer: Dipl.Ing. Matthias Schuler, Dipl.Ing. Thomas
>         Auer,
>         Dipl.Phys. Stefan Holst, Prof. Volkmar Bleicher
>
>         -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>         Von: julia.feste [mailto:julia.feste at whitepavilion.com.cn
>         <mailto:julia.feste at whitepavilion.com.cn>]
>         Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. November 2010 06:46
>         An: trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu <mailto:trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
>         Betreff: [TRNSYS-users] google sketchup+trnsys3d
>
>
>         Hello everybody,
>         Thanks for your posts that's always really interesting!
>         I come up with a problem using Google Sketchup and TRNSYS3D:
>         inside a
>         TRNSYS zone, I draft a square, then I want to pull it up at a
>         certain
>         height, so I write the number then Enter, and this error appears:
>
>         <-----Beginning of the error----->
>         ERROR:
>         NoMethodError
>         undefined method `position' for
>         #<Sketchup::AttributeDictionary:0xfcb4eb8>
>
>         BACKTRACE:
>         C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>         8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/sketchup/Sketchup.rb:309:in `polygon_loop'
>         C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>         8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/sketchup/Sketchup.rb:309:in `each'
>         C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>         8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/sketchup/Sketchup.rb:309:in `polygon_loop'
>         C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>         8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/sketchup/Sketchup.rb:321:in `outer_polygon'
>         C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>         8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/sketchup/Sketchup.rb:326:in `polygon'
>         C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>         8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/lib/interfaces/DrawingUtils.rb:27:in
>         `detect_base_face'
>         C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>         8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/lib/interfaces/DrawingUtils.rb:20:in `each'
>         C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>         8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/lib/interfaces/DrawingUtils.rb:20:in
>         `detect_base_face'
>         C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>         8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/lib/interfaces/BaseSurface.rb:254:in
>         `face_polygon'
>         C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>         8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/lib/interfaces/BaseSurface.rb:253:in `each'
>         C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>         8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/lib/interfaces/BaseSurface.rb:253:in
>         `face_polygon'
>         C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>         8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/lib/interfaces/Surface.rb:107:in
>         `update_input_object'
>         C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>         8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/lib/interfaces/BaseSurface.rb:94:in
>         `update_input_object'
>         C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>         8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/lib/interfaces/DrawingInterface.rb:353:in
>         `on_change_entity'
>         C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>         8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/lib/observers/FaceObserver.rb:32:in
>         `onChangeEntity'
>         C:/Program Files/Google/Google SketchUp
>         8/Plugins/Trnsys3d/lib/AsynchProc.rb:17:in `initialize'
>
>         <-----End of the error----->
>
>         When I pull it up manual, I don't have any problem, just when
>         I write
>         the number.
>
>         Thanks in advance for your help,
>         Julia.
>         ________________________________________
>         From: trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu
>         <mailto:trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu>
>         [trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu
>         <mailto:trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu>]
>         Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 1:04 AM
>         To: trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu <mailto:trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
>         Subject: TRNSYS-users Digest, Vol 71, Issue 4
>
>         Send TRNSYS-users mailing list submissions to
>         trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu <mailto:trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
>
>         To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/trnsys-users
>         or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu
>         <mailto:trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu>
>
>         You can reach the person managing the list at
>         trnsys-users-owner at cae.wisc.edu
>         <mailto:trnsys-users-owner at cae.wisc.edu>
>
>         When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
>         specific than
>         "Re: Contents of TRNSYS-users digest..."
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         TRNSYS-users mailing list
>         TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu <mailto:TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu>
>         https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/trnsys-users
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>         ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>         From: "Emiliano Casati - 3ME" <E.I.M.Casati at tudelft.nl
>         <mailto:E.I.M.Casati at tudelft.nl>>
>         To: <trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu <mailto:trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>>
>         Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 13:19:58 +0100
>         Subject: [TRNSYS-users] input file
>
>         Hi to everybody!
>
>         I don’t understand why, for certain projects, I can’t open the
>         input file, the message is “the system cannot find the path
>         specified”.
>
>         Where should I find the input file?
>
>         Thanks a lot
>
>         ec
>
>
>
>         ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>         From: "Timothy McDowell" <mcdowell at tess-inc.com
>         <mailto:mcdowell at tess-inc.com>>
>         To: "Thibaut VITTE" <thibaut.vitte at h3c-energies.fr
>         <mailto:thibaut.vitte at h3c-energies.fr>>,
>         trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu <mailto:trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
>         Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 07:23:05 -0500 (CDT)
>         Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] GenOpt optimization: problem for
>         the secondgeneration after 5 simulations
>         This type of error in GenOpt is usually caused by an error in
>         the TRNSYS
>         simulation.  You need to check the *.lst file for the TRNSYS
>         run to see
>         what the TRNSYS error is.
>
>         Regards,
>
>         Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>         ----------------------------------
>         Timothy McDowell
>         Executive Vice President
>         Thermal Energy System Specialists, LLC
>         22 N. Carroll St, Suite 370
>         Madison, WI 53703
>         Phone: 608-274-2577
>         Fax: 608-278-1475
>
>         ----- Original Message -----
>         From: "Thibaut VITTE" <thibaut.vitte at h3c-energies.fr
>         <mailto:thibaut.vitte at h3c-energies.fr>>
>         Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 5:27
>         Subject:Re: [TRNSYS-users] GenOpt optimization: problem for the
>         secondgeneration after 5 simulations
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>            Dear Alexis,
>
>            I've had a similar error when I used Genopt. I've had several
>            components tracked by a "trace" command that made my list file
>            enormous (more than 100Mb) and genopt could'nt handle that
>         amount of
>            data.
>
>            Just my 2cents.
>
>            Thibaut
>            --
>
>
>         .bodyclass      @page { size: 8.5in 11in; margin-top:
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>                          Le futur maîtrisé
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>                      Thibaut VITTE
>                      Docteur - Ingénieur Energies
>                      Mail : thibaut.vitte at h3c-energies.fr
>         <mailto:thibaut.vitte at h3c-energies.fr>
>
>                      -----------------------------
>                      H3C-énergies
>                      35, chemin du vieux Chêne - 38240 MEYLAN
>                      Tél : 04 76 41 88 66 – Fax : 04 76 41 28
>                          94
>         www.h3c-energies.fr <http://www.h3c-energies.fr/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>            
>          -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>              Afin de contribuer au respect de l'environnement,
>                merci de n'imprimer ce message qu'en cas de nécessité.
>              In order to respect the environment, please don't
>                print this e-mail unless you really need to.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         TRNSYS-users mailing list
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>         https://www-old.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/trnsys-users
>
>
>         ----- End of original message -----
>
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
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-- 
***************************
David BRADLEY
Principal
Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
Madison, WI  53703 USA

P:+1.608.274.2577
F:+1.608.278.1475
d.bradley at tess-inc.com

http://www.tess-inc.com
http://www.trnsys.com

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