[TRNSYS-users] Simplified heating and cooling basedonoperativetemperature

Thu Feb 18 07:00:42 PST 2010

My apologies, yes a typo on my end: Ntype25, not Ntype28.  Just wanted to make sure you were aware of Ntype25. :-)

Kent Beason

Schlitterbahn Development Group

830-609-8904 m

________________________________

From: keilholz, werner [mailto:werner.keilholz at cstb.fr] 
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 8:54 AM
To: Kent Beason
Cc: trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
Subject: RE: [TRNSYS-users] Simplified heating and cooling basedonoperativetemperature

I think using NTYPE 25 is actually more precise, as it seems to use variable exchange coefficients (the formula is in the manual 5).

I guess NType25 was not available when we had this discussion, so I guess using it is probably better than writing the formula (which was mainly used to show the basic idea).

Werner

De : Kent Beason [mailto:kbeason at schlitterbahn.com] 
Envoyé : jeudi 18 février 2010 15:36
À : keilholz, werner
Objet : RE: [TRNSYS-users] Simplified heating and cooling basedonoperativetemperature

Werner, 

Does this approach give a different result than that which the NType28 provides from the Type56 outputs?

Kent Beason

Schlitterbahn Development Group

830-609-8904 m

________________________________

From: keilholz, werner [mailto:werner.keilholz at cstb.fr] 
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 8:18 AM
To: Sabine Jansen - BK; Maarten Sourbron; trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Simplified heating and cooling basedonoperativetemperature

I once proposed to define an equation  :

(using the definition from Wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operative_temperature> )

tr         mean wall temperature; 

ta         mean air temperature 

ts         mean skin temperature

and link it to the building as in the attached picture. 

1.	In TRNBuild, add all 'wall temperatures' as outputs (yields tri, for i 1 to n walls)
2.	Add an equation to compute  , then T0 
	Estimate  v (wind speed) and ts (skin temperature)  

3.	Connect the result to a controller which pilots the heating in type 56 in mode « temperature level control »

But I agree it would be much nicer to have a switch in type 56 allowing computing based on operative temperature. 

I'm not at all an expert in this domain, but my expert colleagues never contested the approach :-)

(except for the hint that the mean surface temperatures should also be scaled depending on the surface area to be precise...).

Werner

De : Sabine Jansen - BK [mailto:S.C.Jansen at tudelft.nl] 
Envoyé : jeudi 18 février 2010 14:51
À : Maarten Sourbron; trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
Objet : Re: [TRNSYS-users] Simplified heating and cooling based onoperativetemperature

Dear all,

I am also interensted in that question.

The only way I know now how to solve this is by using a type (controller, type 2 or thermostat, type 8) outside type 56. The the operative zone temperature must be connected to this type (e.g. 2b and creating a schedule elsewhere, in an equation solver), and the heating must be defined as a limited power connected to an input, which is then the output of the control type (type 2 or type 8).

One problem with this approach is that I cannot use a very large heating power anymore, since that causes the controller to switch on and off. Thus the heating power must be determined using the ideal heating, based on air temperature, first.

If there is an easier way, I am also very happy.

Kind regards,

Sabine Jansen

________________________________

Van: Maarten Sourbron [mailto:Maarten.Sourbron at mech.kuleuven.be]
Verzonden: do 18-2-2010 13:53
Aan: trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
Onderwerp: [TRNSYS-users] Simplified heating and cooling based on operativetemperature

Dear all,

The simplified heating and cooling in Trnbuild is now comparing the zone
AIR temperature with the given set points.  Is there a way to change
this (or another controller model) to have the zone OPERATIVE
temperature compared with the set points?

Kind regards,

Maarten Sourbron

--
Departement Werktuigkunde-Department of Mechanical Engineering
Katholieke Universiteit Leuven
Celestijnenlaan 300A bus 2421
3001 Heverlee (Leuven)
T : 0032 (0)16 32 28 73
F : 0032 (0)16 32 29 85
E : Maarten.Sourbron at mech.kuleuven.be

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