AW: [TRNSYS-users] how to get the general U-value?

Torsten Welfonder welfonder at transsolar.com
Fri Feb 18 08:10:42 PST 2005


A colleague just noticed that I mixed the norm numbers (thanks Martin).
The norm for U-Value calculation is of course the EN673,
and the EN410 is for the g-value calculation.
Sorry for the confusion.
 
Torsten

	-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
	Von: Torsten Welfonder 
	Gesendet: 18 February 2005 14:05
	An: 'Isabelle BRUYERE'; Pietro Filippi; trnsys-users at engr.wisc.edu
	Betreff: AW: [TRNSYS-users] how to get the general U-value?
	
	
	The value after "End of library" is a display only value for TRNBUILD. Type 56 does the u-value calculation internally depending on temperatures and so on.
	The displayed values are only for certain boundary conditions valid.  Unfortunately the conditions of the doe2 output are not the same as of  EN410-Norm. 
	But those conditions can be changed in W5 at Libraries\Environmental Conditions\..
	Trnbuild now takes from the w4-lib data the red marked condition. We changed that in the new TRNBUILD-Version  to the green marked value because this value is closer to the 
	EN410 condition. 
	 
	Overall and Center of Glass Ig U-values (W/m2-C)
	Outdoor Temperature                 -17.8 C      15.6 C      26.7 C      37.8 C
	Solar      WdSpd  hcout hrout  hin
	(W/m2)     (m/s)     (W/m2-C)
	   0        0.00  12.25  3.24  7.59  1.44 1.44  1.35 1.35  1.38 1.38  1.45 1.45 
	   0        6.71  25.47  3.21  7.62  1.51 1.51  1.39 1.39  1.43 1.43  1.51 1.51 
	 783        0.00  12.25  3.41  6.82  1.41 1.41  1.42 1.42  1.47 1.47  1.53 1.53 
	 783        6.71  25.47  3.31  7.10  1.51 1.51  1.45 1.45  1.51 1.51  1.56 1.56 
	 
	*** END OF LIBRARY ***
	********************************************************************************
	*WinID  Description   Aufbau   U-Value  g-value  T-sol   Rf-sol   T-vis   
	********************************************************************************
	5001 Double,low-e,Ar  3.0/12.7/2.5             1.5    0.596    0.544    0.220   0.769
	 
	Krypton has a very low conductivity but a high ratio of the convection with in the gap which is depending on the temperature difference between inner and outer pane.
	So the u-value changes more with a the temperature difference.
	There for a difference in the boundary conditions to the norm conditions has a greater influence for Krypton.
	The best of course  would be to have DOE2 Output with EN410 conditions for g and u value.
	 
	best regards

	Torsten Welfonder 

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		-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
		Von: trnsys-users-bounces at engr.wisc.edu [mailto:trnsys-users-bounces at engr.wisc.edu] Im Auftrag von Isabelle BRUYERE
		Gesendet: 17 February 2005 09:42
		An: Pietro Filippi; trnsys-users at engr.wisc.edu
		Betreff: Re: [TRNSYS-users] how to get the general U-value?
		
		
		Hi Pietro,
		
		Sorry I can't help you with that one. But I also noticed some difference between the U value given by WINDOW5 and the one showed by TrnBuilt, especially when you use Krypton between the glasses.
		Does anybody have an explanation for that ?
		
		Best regards,
		
		Isabelle
		
		
		A 17:55 16/02/2005 +0100, Pietro Filippi a écrit :
		

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			sorry for another question,
			I "decoded" the reported data from Window 5 as edited in W4-lib.dat file in order to describe the global value as described at the "END OF THE LIBRARY" in this file (see the example below). I found an exact corresspondence for all the data except for the U-value, whose reported value I suppose to be a mean value of the reported ones in the "Overall and Center of Glass Ig U-values (W/m2-C)" lines. but which ones?
			Otherwise I thought it should simply be the global value reported for the glazing system of a given window, but I cannot verify it since a can't resume the Trnsys W4-lib story of course...
			can anybody confirm to me that it is correct to assume for U-value what given for the glazing system and not get it from the Window 5 report? 
			thanks in advance
			Pietro
			 
			 
			WINDOW 4.1  TRNSYS 14.2 Data File : Multi Band Calculation
			 
			Unit System : SI
			Name        : TRNSYS 14.2 WINDOW LIB
			Desc        : Dble,Low-e,Ar
			Window ID   : 5001   
			Tilt        : 90.0
			Glazings    : 2
			Frame       :  1 Al no break          10.790
			Spacer      :  1 Class1                2.330  -0.010   0.138
			Total Height: 1219.2 mm
			Total Width :  914.4 mm
			Glass Height: 1104.9 mm
			Glass Width :  800.1 mm
			Mullion     : None
			Gap        Thick   Cond  dCond    Vis   dVis   Dens   dDens     Pr     dPr
			1 Argon     12.7 0.01620  5.000  2.110  6.300  1.780 -0.0060  0.680 0.00066
			2              0       0      0      0      0      0       0      0       0
			3              0       0      0      0      0      0       0      0       0
			4              0       0      0      0      0      0       0      0       0
			5              0       0      0      0      0      0       0      0       0
			Angle     0    10    20    30    40    50    60    70    80    90 Hemis
			Tsol  0.544 0.548 0.539 0.529 0.514 0.486 0.426 0.312 0.145 0.000 0.453
			Abs1  0.187 0.190 0.200 0.207 0.210 0.218 0.242 0.273 0.248 0.001 0.221
			Abs2  0.048 0.049 0.049 0.050 0.051 0.052 0.050 0.045 0.033 0.000 0.048
			Abs3      0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0
			Abs4      0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0
			Abs5      0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0
			Abs6      0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0     0
			Rfsol 0.220 0.214 0.212 0.214 0.224 0.244 0.282 0.371 0.574 0.999 0.268
			Rbsol 0.236 0.231 0.230 0.232 0.241 0.261 0.307 0.414 0.629 1.000 0.291
			Tvis  0.769 0.774 0.763 0.749 0.730 0.692 0.605 0.440 0.205 0.000 0.642
			Rfvis 0.138 0.131 0.128 0.131 0.143 0.168 0.217 0.323 0.549 0.999 0.197
			Rbvis 0.127 0.120 0.119 0.124 0.138 0.168 0.233 0.379 0.650 1.000 0.208
			SHGC  0.596 0.600 0.592 0.583 0.569 0.543 0.483 0.366 0.188 0.000 0.507
			SC: 0.69
			 
			 
			 
			Layer ID#          400        1        0        0        0        0 
			Tir              0.000    0.000        0        0        0        0
			Emis F           0.840    0.840        0        0        0        0
			Emis B           0.100    0.840        0        0        0        0
			Thickness(mm)      3.0      2.5        0        0        0        0
			Cond(W/m2-C     )300.0    360.0        0        0        0        0    
			Spectral File     None     None     None     None     None     None
			 
			Overall and Center of Glass Ig U-values (W/m2-C)
			Outdoor Temperature                 -17.8 C      15.6 C      26.7 C      37.8 C
			Solar      WdSpd  hcout hrout  hin
			(W/m2)     (m/s)     (W/m2-C)
			   0        0.00  12.25  3.24  7.59  1.44 1.44  1.35 1.35  1.38 1.38  1.45 1.45 
			   0        6.71  25.47  3.21  7.62  1.51 1.51  1.39 1.39  1.43 1.43  1.51 1.51 
			 783        0.00  12.25  3.41  6.82  1.41 1.41  1.42 1.42  1.47 1.47  1.53 1.53 
			 783        6.71  25.47  3.31  7.10  1.51 1.51  1.45 1.45  1.51 1.51  1.56 1.56 
			 
			*** END OF LIBRARY ***
			********************************************************************************
			*WinID  Description   Aufbau   U-Value  g-value  T-sol   Rf-sol   T-vis   
			********************************************************************************
			1001 Single_Pane            4                   5.8    0.870    0.850    0.075   0.901
			2001 Double_Pane      2.5/12.7/2.5              2.7    0.777    0.727    0.129   0.817
			3001 Triple_Pane      2.5/12.7/2.5/12.7/2.5     1.8    0.700    0.624    0.168   0.744
			4001 Double,low-e     3.0/12.7/2.5              1.7    0.597    0.544    0.220   0.769
			5001 Double,low-e,Ar  3.0/12.7/2.5             1.5    0.596    0.544    0.220   0.769
			 
			 
			 
			 
			Ing. Pietro Filippi
			Nier Ingegneria SpA
			www.niering.it <http://www.niering.it/> 
			Via Altabella 3, 40126 Bologna
			tel: +39 051234359
			fax: +39 051239530
			 
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		Isabelle Bruyère                                                
		Université Catholique de Louvain                        Place du Levant, 1 à 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve
		Unité d'architecture - Architecture et Climat           Tél : 010/47 21 38 - Fax : 010/47 21 50
		
		http://www-climat.arch.ucl.ac.be/
		

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