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<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=694291716-18022005>A
colleague just noticed that I mixed the norm numbers (thanks
Martin).</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=694291716-18022005>
<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=340390114-18022005><SPAN class=694291716-18022005>The </SPAN><SPAN
class=694291716-18022005>n</SPAN>orm <SPAN class=694291716-18022005>for
</SPAN> U-<SPAN class=694291716-18022005>Value calculation is of course
the</SPAN> EN673,</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=340390114-18022005><SPAN class=694291716-18022005>and the
</SPAN>EN410 <SPAN class=694291716-18022005>is for the</SPAN> g-<SPAN
class=694291716-18022005>value
calculation.</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV></SPAN><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=694291716-18022005>Sorry for the confusion.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=694291716-18022005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=694291716-18022005>Torsten</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr lang=de><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----<BR><B>Von:</B> Torsten Welfonder
<BR><B>Gesendet:</B> 18 February 2005 14:05<BR><B>An:</B> 'Isabelle BRUYERE';
Pietro Filippi; trnsys-users@engr.wisc.edu<BR><B>Betreff:</B> AW:
[TRNSYS-users] how to get the general U-value?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=089472010-18022005>The
value after "End of library" is a display only value for TRNBUILD. Type 56
does the u-value calculation internally depending on temperatures and so
on.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=089472010-18022005><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>The displayed values are only for certain boundary conditions
valid. Unfortunately the conditions of the doe2 output are not the
same as of <FONT size=2>
EN410-Norm. </FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=089472010-18022005><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>But those conditions can be changed </FONT></FONT><FONT
size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial>in W5 at Libraries<SPAN
class=089472010-18022005>\<FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff>Environmental
Conditions</FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN
class=089472010-18022005>\..</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=089472010-18022005><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN class=089472010-18022005>Trnbuild now takes from the w4-lib
data the red marked condition. We changed that in the new
TRNBUILD-Version to the green marked value because this value is closer
to the </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=089472010-18022005><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN class=089472010-18022005>EN410 condition.
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=089472010-18022005><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN
class=089472010-18022005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=089472010-18022005><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN class=089472010-18022005><FONT face=arial size=2>Overall and
Center of Glass Ig <B>U-values</B> (W/m2-C)<BR>Outdoor
Temperature
-17.8 C 15.6 C
26.7 C 37.8
C<BR>Solar WdSpd hcout hrout
hin<BR>(W/m2) (m/s)
(W/m2-C)<BR> 0
0.00 12.25 3.24 7.59 1.44 1.44 1.35 1.35
1.38 1.38 1.45 1.45 <BR>
0 6.71 25.47 3.21
7.62 <FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG>1.51 </STRONG></FONT>1.51 1.39
1.39 <FONT color=#00ff00><STRONG>1.43 </STRONG></FONT>1.43 1.51
1.51 <BR> 783 0.00
12.25 3.41 6.82 1.41 1.41 1.42 1.42 1.47
1.47 1.53 1.53 <BR> 783
6.71 25.47 3.31 7.10 1.51 1.51 1.45 1.45
1.51 1.51 1.56 1.56 </FONT><BR> <BR><FONT face=arial size=2>*** END
OF LIBRARY
***<BR>********************************************************************************<BR>*WinID
Description Aufbau U-Value g-value
T-sol Rf-sol T-vis
<BR>********************************************************************************<BR><B>5001</B>
Double,low-e,Ar
3.0/12.7/2.5
<B>1.5</B> 0.596 0.544
0.220
0.769</FONT><BR> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=089472010-18022005>Krypton has a very low conductivity but a high ratio
of the convection with in the gap which is depending on the temperature
difference between inner and outer pane.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=089472010-18022005>So
the u-value changes more with a the temperature
difference.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=089472010-18022005>There for a difference in the boundary conditions to
the norm conditions has a greater influence for Krypton.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=089472010-18022005><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN class=089472010-18022005>The best of course would be to
have DOE2 Output with EN410 conditions for g and u
value.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=089472010-18022005><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN
class=089472010-18022005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=089472010-18022005><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN class=089472010-18022005>best
regards</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial size=2>Torsten Welfonder</FONT>
</FONT></P>
<P><SPAN lang=de><FONT face=Arial
size=2>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></SPAN>
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</FONT></SPAN><BR><SPAN lang=de><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=2>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN lang=de><B><FONT color=#ff0000 face=Arial size=1>TRNSYS-Usertag
2005</FONT></B></SPAN> <BR><B><SPAN lang=de-ch><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=1>When?
18.03.2005</FONT></SPAN></B><SPAN lang=de-ch><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=1>; 9.00 - 18.00 Uhr</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=de-ch><B><FONT
color=#000000 face=Arial size=1>Where?</FONT></B>
<FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=1>Stuttgart</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=de-ch><B><FONT color=#000000
face=Arial size=1>Language?</FONT></B>
<FONT color=#000000 face=Arial size=1>German and english</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN lang=de-ch><B><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=1>price?</FONT></B>
</SPAN><SPAN lang=en-gb></SPAN><SPAN
lang=en-gb> <FONT color=#000000 face=Arial size=1>€</FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=1> 150,- per person</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=de-ch> <FONT color=#000000
face=Arial size=1>before 31.12.2004 </FONT></SPAN><BR><SPAN
lang=de-ch>
</SPAN><SPAN lang=en-gb></SPAN><SPAN
lang=en-gb> <FONT color=#000000 face=Arial size=1>€</FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=1> 210,- per person</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=de-ch> <FONT color=#000000
face=Arial size=1>after 31.12.2004</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-gb><FONT
face=Arial size=1> + VAT</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=de-ch></SPAN> </P>
<P><SPAN lang=de><B><FONT color=#ff0000 face=Arial size=1>TRNSYS-courses
2005</FONT></B></SPAN> <BR><B><SPAN lang=de-ch><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=1>course 1</FONT></SPAN></B><SPAN lang=de-ch><FONT color=#000000
face=Arial size=1>:
Introduction into the work with
TRNSYS</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=en-gb><FONT face=Arial
size=1>Price:</FONT> <FONT color=#000000 face=Arial size=1>€</FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=1> 990,- per person, + VAT</FONT></SPAN><SPAN
lang=de-ch></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=de-ch><B><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=1>2./3.06.2005</FONT></B></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=de-ch><B><FONT
color=#000000 face=Arial size=1>course 2:</FONT></B><FONT color=#000000
face=Arial size=1>
Building Simulations with
TRNSYS</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=en-gb><FONT face=Arial
size=1>Price:</FONT> <FONT color=#000000 face=Arial size=1>€</FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=1> 990,- per person, + VAT</FONT></SPAN><SPAN
lang=de-ch></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=de-ch><B><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=1>15./16.06.2005</FONT></B></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=de-ch><B><FONT
color=#000000 face=Arial size=1>course
4:</FONT></B>
<FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=1>airflow simulation in buildings TRNFLOW</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN
lang=en-gb><FONT face=Arial size=1>Price:</FONT> <FONT color=#000000
face=Arial size=1>€</FONT><FONT face=Arial size=1> 690,- per person, +
VAT</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=de-ch></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=de-ch><B><FONT
color=#000000 face=Arial size=1>17.06.2005</FONT></B></SPAN> <BR><SPAN
lang=de><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=2>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN lang=de><B><FONT color=#ff0000 face=Arial size=1>TRNSYSlite
3.0 </FONT></B></SPAN><B><SPAN lang=de-ch></SPAN></B><SPAN lang=de-ch>
<FONT color=#000000 face=Arial size=1>more information about
TRNSYSlite30</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-gb> <FONT face=Arial size=1>can be
found</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=de-ch> <FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=1>at:</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=de-ch><U> <FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=1><A
href="http://www.trnsys.de/ts/english/softeng/tliteeng/tliteeng.htm">http://www.trnsys.de/ts/english/softeng/tliteeng/tliteeng.htm</A></FONT></U><FONT
color=#000000 face=Arial size=1>.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN lang=de><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=2>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN lang=de><B><FONT color=#ff0000 face=Arial size=1>New:
TRNSYS16
</FONT></B></SPAN><B><SPAN
lang=de-ch></SPAN></B><SPAN lang=de-ch> <FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=1>more information about TRNSYS16</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-gb> <FONT
face=Arial size=1>can be found</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=de-ch> <FONT
color=#000000 face=Arial size=1>at:</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=de-ch><U> <FONT
color=#0000ff face=Arial size=1><A
href="http://www.trnsys.de/ts/english/softeng/trneng/trneng.htm">http://www.trnsys.de/ts/english/softeng/trneng/trneng.htm</A></FONT></U><FONT
color=#000000 face=Arial size=1>.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN lang=de><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=2>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN lang=de><B><FONT color=#ff0000 face=Arial size=1>TRNFLOW
</FONT></B></SPAN><B><SPAN
lang=de-ch></SPAN></B><SPAN lang=de-ch> <FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=1>more information about TRNFlow</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-gb> <FONT
face=Arial size=1>can be found</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=de-ch> <FONT
color=#000000 face=Arial size=1>at:</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=de-ch><U> <FONT
color=#0000ff face=Arial size=1><A
href="http://www.trnsys.de/ts/english/softeng/floweng/floweng.htm">http://www.trnsys.de/ts/english/softeng/floweng/floweng.htm</A></FONT></U><FONT
color=#000000 face=Arial size=1>.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN lang=de><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=2>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN lang=en-gb><FONT face=Arial size=1>if you need any further
information please contact</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=en-gb><U> <FONT
color=#0000ff face=Arial size=1><A
href="mailto:hotline@transsolar.com">hotline@transsolar.com</A></FONT></U><FONT
face=Arial size=1>.</FONT></SPAN> </P><BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=089472010-18022005><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN
class=089472010-18022005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr lang=de><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----<BR><B>Von:</B>
trnsys-users-bounces@engr.wisc.edu
[mailto:trnsys-users-bounces@engr.wisc.edu] <B>Im Auftrag von </B>Isabelle
BRUYERE<BR><B>Gesendet:</B> 17 February 2005 09:42<BR><B>An:</B> Pietro
Filippi; trnsys-users@engr.wisc.edu<BR><B>Betreff:</B> Re: [TRNSYS-users]
how to get the general U-value?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>Hi Pietro,<BR><BR>Sorry
I can't help you with that one. But I also noticed some difference between
the U value given by WINDOW5 and the one showed by TrnBuilt, especially when
you use Krypton between the glasses.<BR>Does anybody have an explanation for
that ?<BR><BR>Best regards,<BR><BR>Isabelle<BR><BR><BR>A 17:55 16/02/2005
+0100, Pietro Filippi a écrit :<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=cite type="cite" cite>Content-class:
urn:content-classes:message<BR>Content-Type:
multipart/alternative;<BR><X-TAB> </X-TAB>boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C51448.61342D9C"<BR><BR><FONT
face=arial size=2>sorry for another question,</FONT><BR><FONT face=arial
size=2>I "decoded" the reported data from Window 5 as edited in W4-lib.dat
file in order to describe the global value as described at the "END OF THE
LIBRARY" in this file (see the example below). I found an exact
corresspondence for all the data except for the U-value, whose reported
value I suppose to be a mean value of the reported ones in the "Overall
and Center of Glass Ig U-values (W/m2-C)" lines. but which
ones?</FONT><BR><FONT face=arial size=2>Otherwise I thought it should
simply be the global value reported for the glazing system of a given
window, but I cannot verify it since a can't resume the Trnsys W4-lib
story of course...</FONT><BR><FONT face=arial size=2>can anybody confirm
to me that it is correct to assume for U-value what given for the glazing
system and not get it from the Window 5 report? </FONT><BR><FONT
face=arial size=2>thanks in advance</FONT><BR><FONT face=arial
size=2>Pietro</FONT><BR> <BR> <BR><FONT face=arial size=2>WINDOW
4.1 TRNSYS 14.2 Data File : Multi Band
Calculation</FONT><BR> <BR><FONT face=arial size=2>Unit System :
SI<BR>Name : TRNSYS 14.2 WINDOW
LIB<BR>Desc :
Dble,Low-e,Ar<BR>Window ID : <B>5001 </B>
<BR>Tilt :
90.0<BR>Glazings :
2<BR>Frame : 1 Al no
break
10.790<BR>Spacer : 1
Class1
2.330 -0.010 0.138<BR>Total Height: 1219.2 mm<BR>Total
Width : 914.4 mm<BR>Glass Height: 1104.9 mm<BR>Glass Width :
800.1 mm<BR>Mullion :
None<BR>Gap Thick
Cond dCond Vis dVis
Dens dDens Pr
dPr<BR>1 Argon 12.7 0.01620 5.000
2.110 6.300 1.780 -0.0060 0.680
0.00066<BR>2
0 0
0 0
0 0
0 0
0<BR>3
0 0
0 0
0 0
0 0
0<BR>4
0 0
0 0
0 0
0 0
0<BR>5
0 0
0 0
0 0
0 0
0<BR>Angle 0
10 20 30
40 50 60
70 80 90 Hemis<BR>Tsol 0.544
0.548 0.539 0.529 0.514 0.486 0.426 0.312 0.145 0.000 0.453<BR>Abs1
0.187 0.190 0.200 0.207 0.210 0.218 0.242 0.273 0.248 0.001
0.221<BR>Abs2 0.048 0.049 0.049 0.050 0.051 0.052 0.050 0.045 0.033
0.000 0.048<BR>Abs3
0 0
0 0
0 0
0 0
0 0
0<BR>Abs4 0
0 0
0 0
0 0
0 0
0 0<BR>Abs5
0 0
0 0
0 0
0 0
0 0
0<BR>Abs6 0
0 0
0 0
0 0
0 0
0 0<BR>Rfsol 0.220 0.214 0.212 0.214 0.224 0.244
0.282 0.371 0.574 0.999 0.268<BR>Rbsol 0.236 0.231 0.230 0.232 0.241 0.261
0.307 0.414 0.629 1.000 0.291<BR>Tvis 0.769 0.774 0.763 0.749 0.730
0.692 0.605 0.440 0.205 0.000 0.642<BR>Rfvis 0.138 0.131 0.128 0.131 0.143
0.168 0.217 0.323 0.549 0.999 0.197<BR>Rbvis 0.127 0.120 0.119 0.124 0.138
0.168 0.233 0.379 0.650 1.000 0.208<BR>SHGC 0.596 0.600 0.592 0.583
0.569 0.543 0.483 0.366 0.188 0.000 0.507<BR>SC:
0.69</FONT><BR> <BR> <BR> <BR><FONT face=arial size=2>Layer
ID#
400
1
0
0
0 0
<BR>Tir
0.000 0.000
0
0
0 0<BR>Emis
F
0.840 0.840
0
0
0 0<BR>Emis
B
0.100 0.840
0
0
0
0<BR>Thickness(mm)
3.0
2.5
0
0
0
0<BR>Cond(W/m2-C )300.0
360.0
0
0
0 0
<BR>Spectral File None
None None
None None
None</FONT><BR> <BR><FONT face=arial size=2>Overall and Center of
Glass Ig <B>U-values</B> (W/m2-C)<BR>Outdoor
Temperature
-17.8 C 15.6 C
26.7 C 37.8
C<BR>Solar WdSpd hcout hrout
hin<BR>(W/m2) (m/s)
(W/m2-C)<BR> 0
0.00 12.25 3.24 7.59 1.44 1.44 1.35
1.35 1.38 1.38 1.45 1.45 <BR>
0 6.71 25.47
3.21 7.62 <FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG>1.51
</STRONG></FONT>1.51 1.39 1.39 <FONT
color=#00ff00><STRONG>1.43 </STRONG></FONT>1.43 1.51 1.51
<BR> 783 0.00
12.25 3.41 6.82 1.41 1.41 1.42 1.42 1.47
1.47 1.53 1.53
<BR> 783 6.71
25.47 3.31 7.10 1.51 1.51 1.45 1.45 1.51
1.51 1.56 1.56 </FONT><BR> <BR><FONT face=arial size=2>*** END
OF LIBRARY
***<BR>********************************************************************************<BR>*WinID
Description Aufbau U-Value g-value
T-sol Rf-sol T-vis
<BR>********************************************************************************<BR>1001
Single_Pane
4
5.8 0.870 0.850
0.075 0.901<BR>2001 Double_Pane
2.5/12.7/2.5
2.7 0.777 0.727
0.129 0.817<BR>3001 Triple_Pane
2.5/12.7/2.5/12.7/2.5 1.8
0.700 0.624 0.168
0.744<BR>4001 Double,low-e
3.0/12.7/2.5
1.7 0.597 0.544
0.220 0.769<BR><B>5001</B> Double,low-e,Ar
3.0/12.7/2.5
<B>1.5</B> 0.596
0.544 0.220
0.769</FONT><BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR><FONT face=arial
size=2><I>Ing. Pietro Filippi</I></FONT><BR><FONT face=arial
size=2><I>Nier Ingegneria SpA</I></FONT><BR><FONT face=arial size=2><I><A
href="http://www.niering.it/"
eudora="autourl">www.niering.it</A></I></FONT><BR><FONT face=arial
size=2><I>Via Altabella 3, 40126 Bologna</I></FONT><BR><FONT face=arial
size=2><I>tel: +39 051234359</I></FONT><BR><FONT face=arial size=2><I>fax:
+39
051239530</I></FONT><BR> <BR>_______________________________________________<BR>TRNSYS-users
mailing list<BR>TRNSYS-users@engr.wisc.edu<BR><A
href="https://www.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/trnsys-users"
eudora="autourl">https://www.cae.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/trnsys-users</A></BLOCKQUOTE><X-SIGSEP>
<P></X-SIGSEP><FONT color=#808080><B>Isabelle
Bruyčre<X-TAB> </X-TAB><X-TAB> </X-TAB><X-TAB> </X-TAB><X-TAB> </X-TAB><X-TAB> </X-TAB><X-TAB> </X-TAB><BR></B>Université
Catholique de Louvain
<X-TAB> </X-TAB><X-TAB> </X-TAB><X-TAB> </X-TAB>Place
du Levant, 1 ŕ 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve<BR>Unité d'architecture - Architecture
et
Climat<X-TAB> </X-TAB><X-TAB> </X-TAB>Tél
: 010/47 21 38 - Fax : 010/47 21 50<BR>
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