AW: [TRNSYS-users] how to get the general U-value?
Torsten Welfonder
welfonder at transsolar.com
Fri Feb 18 08:10:42 PST 2005
A colleague just noticed that I mixed the norm numbers (thanks Martin).
The norm for U-Value calculation is of course the EN673,
and the EN410 is for the g-value calculation.
Sorry for the confusion.
Torsten
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Torsten Welfonder
Gesendet: 18 February 2005 14:05
An: 'Isabelle BRUYERE'; Pietro Filippi; trnsys-users at engr.wisc.edu
Betreff: AW: [TRNSYS-users] how to get the general U-value?
The value after "End of library" is a display only value for TRNBUILD. Type 56 does the u-value calculation internally depending on temperatures and so on.
The displayed values are only for certain boundary conditions valid. Unfortunately the conditions of the doe2 output are not the same as of EN410-Norm.
But those conditions can be changed in W5 at Libraries\Environmental Conditions\..
Trnbuild now takes from the w4-lib data the red marked condition. We changed that in the new TRNBUILD-Version to the green marked value because this value is closer to the
EN410 condition.
Overall and Center of Glass Ig U-values (W/m2-C)
Outdoor Temperature -17.8 C 15.6 C 26.7 C 37.8 C
Solar WdSpd hcout hrout hin
(W/m2) (m/s) (W/m2-C)
0 0.00 12.25 3.24 7.59 1.44 1.44 1.35 1.35 1.38 1.38 1.45 1.45
0 6.71 25.47 3.21 7.62 1.51 1.51 1.39 1.39 1.43 1.43 1.51 1.51
783 0.00 12.25 3.41 6.82 1.41 1.41 1.42 1.42 1.47 1.47 1.53 1.53
783 6.71 25.47 3.31 7.10 1.51 1.51 1.45 1.45 1.51 1.51 1.56 1.56
*** END OF LIBRARY ***
********************************************************************************
*WinID Description Aufbau U-Value g-value T-sol Rf-sol T-vis
********************************************************************************
5001 Double,low-e,Ar 3.0/12.7/2.5 1.5 0.596 0.544 0.220 0.769
Krypton has a very low conductivity but a high ratio of the convection with in the gap which is depending on the temperature difference between inner and outer pane.
So the u-value changes more with a the temperature difference.
There for a difference in the boundary conditions to the norm conditions has a greater influence for Krypton.
The best of course would be to have DOE2 Output with EN410 conditions for g and u value.
best regards
Torsten Welfonder
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-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: trnsys-users-bounces at engr.wisc.edu [mailto:trnsys-users-bounces at engr.wisc.edu] Im Auftrag von Isabelle BRUYERE
Gesendet: 17 February 2005 09:42
An: Pietro Filippi; trnsys-users at engr.wisc.edu
Betreff: Re: [TRNSYS-users] how to get the general U-value?
Hi Pietro,
Sorry I can't help you with that one. But I also noticed some difference between the U value given by WINDOW5 and the one showed by TrnBuilt, especially when you use Krypton between the glasses.
Does anybody have an explanation for that ?
Best regards,
Isabelle
A 17:55 16/02/2005 +0100, Pietro Filippi a écrit :
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C51448.61342D9C"
sorry for another question,
I "decoded" the reported data from Window 5 as edited in W4-lib.dat file in order to describe the global value as described at the "END OF THE LIBRARY" in this file (see the example below). I found an exact corresspondence for all the data except for the U-value, whose reported value I suppose to be a mean value of the reported ones in the "Overall and Center of Glass Ig U-values (W/m2-C)" lines. but which ones?
Otherwise I thought it should simply be the global value reported for the glazing system of a given window, but I cannot verify it since a can't resume the Trnsys W4-lib story of course...
can anybody confirm to me that it is correct to assume for U-value what given for the glazing system and not get it from the Window 5 report?
thanks in advance
Pietro
WINDOW 4.1 TRNSYS 14.2 Data File : Multi Band Calculation
Unit System : SI
Name : TRNSYS 14.2 WINDOW LIB
Desc : Dble,Low-e,Ar
Window ID : 5001
Tilt : 90.0
Glazings : 2
Frame : 1 Al no break 10.790
Spacer : 1 Class1 2.330 -0.010 0.138
Total Height: 1219.2 mm
Total Width : 914.4 mm
Glass Height: 1104.9 mm
Glass Width : 800.1 mm
Mullion : None
Gap Thick Cond dCond Vis dVis Dens dDens Pr dPr
1 Argon 12.7 0.01620 5.000 2.110 6.300 1.780 -0.0060 0.680 0.00066
2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Angle 0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 Hemis
Tsol 0.544 0.548 0.539 0.529 0.514 0.486 0.426 0.312 0.145 0.000 0.453
Abs1 0.187 0.190 0.200 0.207 0.210 0.218 0.242 0.273 0.248 0.001 0.221
Abs2 0.048 0.049 0.049 0.050 0.051 0.052 0.050 0.045 0.033 0.000 0.048
Abs3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Abs4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Abs5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Abs6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Rfsol 0.220 0.214 0.212 0.214 0.224 0.244 0.282 0.371 0.574 0.999 0.268
Rbsol 0.236 0.231 0.230 0.232 0.241 0.261 0.307 0.414 0.629 1.000 0.291
Tvis 0.769 0.774 0.763 0.749 0.730 0.692 0.605 0.440 0.205 0.000 0.642
Rfvis 0.138 0.131 0.128 0.131 0.143 0.168 0.217 0.323 0.549 0.999 0.197
Rbvis 0.127 0.120 0.119 0.124 0.138 0.168 0.233 0.379 0.650 1.000 0.208
SHGC 0.596 0.600 0.592 0.583 0.569 0.543 0.483 0.366 0.188 0.000 0.507
SC: 0.69
Layer ID# 400 1 0 0 0 0
Tir 0.000 0.000 0 0 0 0
Emis F 0.840 0.840 0 0 0 0
Emis B 0.100 0.840 0 0 0 0
Thickness(mm) 3.0 2.5 0 0 0 0
Cond(W/m2-C )300.0 360.0 0 0 0 0
Spectral File None None None None None None
Overall and Center of Glass Ig U-values (W/m2-C)
Outdoor Temperature -17.8 C 15.6 C 26.7 C 37.8 C
Solar WdSpd hcout hrout hin
(W/m2) (m/s) (W/m2-C)
0 0.00 12.25 3.24 7.59 1.44 1.44 1.35 1.35 1.38 1.38 1.45 1.45
0 6.71 25.47 3.21 7.62 1.51 1.51 1.39 1.39 1.43 1.43 1.51 1.51
783 0.00 12.25 3.41 6.82 1.41 1.41 1.42 1.42 1.47 1.47 1.53 1.53
783 6.71 25.47 3.31 7.10 1.51 1.51 1.45 1.45 1.51 1.51 1.56 1.56
*** END OF LIBRARY ***
********************************************************************************
*WinID Description Aufbau U-Value g-value T-sol Rf-sol T-vis
********************************************************************************
1001 Single_Pane 4 5.8 0.870 0.850 0.075 0.901
2001 Double_Pane 2.5/12.7/2.5 2.7 0.777 0.727 0.129 0.817
3001 Triple_Pane 2.5/12.7/2.5/12.7/2.5 1.8 0.700 0.624 0.168 0.744
4001 Double,low-e 3.0/12.7/2.5 1.7 0.597 0.544 0.220 0.769
5001 Double,low-e,Ar 3.0/12.7/2.5 1.5 0.596 0.544 0.220 0.769
Ing. Pietro Filippi
Nier Ingegneria SpA
www.niering.it <http://www.niering.it/>
Via Altabella 3, 40126 Bologna
tel: +39 051234359
fax: +39 051239530
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Isabelle Bruyère
Université Catholique de Louvain Place du Levant, 1 à 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve
Unité d'architecture - Architecture et Climat Tél : 010/47 21 38 - Fax : 010/47 21 50
http://www-climat.arch.ucl.ac.be/
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