[Equest-users] Humidification Savings for LEED, BREEM

Mon Jan 30 20:48:34 PST 2017

Hi Bikesh,

My clarifications are as follows:

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 10:08 PM, Fred Betz <fbetz at aeieng.com> wrote:

Short answer is yes, these technologies have been applied for LEED savings.
You’ll need to do an exceptional calculation as eQUEST can’t model an
atomizing system to my knowledge.

[SK]:After doing the exceptional calculation you may be able to find
whether there can be savings or not. There can be easy savings if there is
less electricity used in spray or atomizing humidifier and there is
substantial cooling  and humidification due to the humidification
process.May be the art galary uses too high level of humidity to as to have
good comfort condition for the art things and might be it would be in some
cool areas.

There may be heating savings using atomizing, but it depends on the system
design.

[SK]: Due to humidification after spray atomizer the latent heat will be
transferred from the room to the small minute water droplets and the air
will become cooler and there can be lesser electricity for the cooling
part.Also there might be less heating requirement as there can be enough
heating due to moisture laden heat of the space.

Steam boilers typically operate between 80-85% depending on technology
whereas a hot water preheat coil served by a condensing boiler and/or a
heat recovery chiller would achieve 95% efficiency or better.

[SK]: I'm not clear about this point.

The electrical energy required to provide water for the atomizing system
should also be accounted for in the analysis. Many use RO systems that use
a fair bit of electricity. RO system efficiency ranges from  50-80%
depending on size so on an energy cost basis it may not pan out depending
on utility rates. Also, there’s some pumping energy for the hot water
preheat coil.

[SK]: RO or reverse osmosis is the process of moving of fluid from higher
concentration to lower concentration. The air is always a low density
medium so we can say that it is not RO but it is being operated by
electrical means. Small amount of electricity is required to atomized or
spray the water droplets into the room.

That said I believe it’s much easier to permit and operate an atomizing
system than a steam boiler so if your only steam need is humidification and
you’re installing a whole boiler system for just that, it may not payback
even if the steam system uses less energy cost. That value should be
determined in a life cycle cost analysis.

[SK]: I'm not sure how we can succumb to this that whether the steam boiler
can replace a atomizing humidifier or not.

Hope this may clarify few things.

Hope that makes sense.

Fred

>
>
> *Fred Betz*  PhD, LEED® AP BD+C
> Building Performance
>
>
>
> *AEI* | AFFILIATED ENGINEERS, INC.
> 5802 Research Park Boulevard | Madison, WI  53719
>
> P: 608.236.1175 | F: 608.238.2614
> fbetz at aeieng.com  |  *www.aeieng.com <http://www.aeieng.com/>*
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Sharad Kumar via Equest-users [mailto:equest-users at lists.one
> building.org]
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2017 3:10 AM
> *To:* equest-users <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>;
> equest-users-request <equest-users-request at lists.onebuilding.org>;
> bdahal at emegroup.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Humidification Savings for LEED, BREEM
>
>
>
> Hi Bikesh,
>
>
>
> As per me if the arts storage requires humidification then it is climate
> dependent to have achieve the target of having energy savings.
>
>
>
> It would depend upon the system and design set-points to show how savings
> can be achieved.
>
>
>
> For this one requires to have the set-point slightly below the required
> cooling set-point. After the water small droplets are atomized it is
> certain to achieve small amount of energy saving depending upon the climate
> and the maximum and minimum humidity required to be maintained.
>
> My theory is as per some hypothetical climate zone which is warm and humid
> or dry.
>
>
>
> The concept behind the energy savings can be the latent heat of heating of
> water droplets.
>
> .
>
> The water droplets will absorb the heat of the air and make it cooler and
> also the storage system might require high level of humidity.
>
>
>
> As per me for the exceptional calculation you will have to have the
> parametric runs with the maximum and minimum humidity to show the exception
> based calculation on the basis of how the humidity factor is causing the
> energy savings to be achieved.
>
>
>
> Following can be the problems with the target:
>
>
>
> 1.The climate having low temperature all over the year so the purpose is
> not achieved.
>
>
>
> 2. The climatic condition is highly humid so the de-humidification and
> humidification will cause exceptional losses.
>
>
>
> 3. To achieve the energy savings you can be required to moderate the
> maximum and minimum amount of relative humidity the parametric runs.
>
>
>
> 4. If you are going as per LEED or BREEM, the you are required to have the
> humidity maximum and minimum as per the guideline.
>
>
>
> Hope this may help.
>
> For more support other can have help.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Thanks,*
>
> *Sharad.Kumar*
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Bikesh Dahal via Equest-users <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> To: Chris Jones <Christopher.Jones at rwdi.com>, Arunabha Sau <
> runabha at gmail.com>
> Cc: "equest-users at onebuilding.org" <equest-users at onebuilding.org>
> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 20:07:07 +0000
> Subject: [Equest-users] Humidification Savings for LEED, BREEM
>
> Has anyone shown savings for atomizing humidifiers for LEED and BREEM
> Projects? I am working on an arts storage facility with significant
> humidification requirements. I would like to claim savings due to the
> atomizing humidifiers.
>
> I am developing an exceptional calculation to demonstrate the savings. I
> was wondering if anyone has been able to claim savings for these either in
> LEED or BREEM certification?
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
>
>
> *Bikesh Dahal, BEMP*
>
> *Associate*
>
>
>
> [image: cid:image003.png at 01D06C70.35E5BD50]
>
> 129 West 27th Street
>
> New York, NY  10001
>
> tel:  212-529-5969, ext. 318
>
> fax: 212-529-6023
>
> bdahal at emegroup.com
>
> www.emegroup.com
>
> NY ▪ Albany ▪ Philadelphia ▪ Denver
>
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