[Bldg-sim] climate zone Rome

Wed Feb 3 08:14:03 PST 2016

Joe is correct. What's reported is what's in the weather file... degree
days.  And what Standard 90.1 (and now Standard 169) reports is based on
climate (period of record).

When using actual weather data, I have seen a location change climate zones
from year to year. Which makes sense, some years are warmer and some are
cooler. One example I found, Beijing China, for the years 1982-1999, the
climate zone varies from 3C to 5A, while the IWEC file is 5A.  And Standard
169-2013 has it at 4A (same data as 2009 Handbook).

FYI, Rome is CZ 3A in 169-2013.

In all cases, what is in Standard 90.1-2010 is what should be used, based
on climatic conditions not a single year of weather.  Standard 90.1 (and
189.1) has recently adopted the 169-2013 data, which will be incorporated
into 90.1-2016.

On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 10:53 AM, Jim Dirkes <jim at buildingperformanceteam.com
> wrote:

> Thanks, Joe. I appreciate the additional insights. I suspect that LEED
> reviewers don't know as much background as you do and are inclined to
> follow the 90.1 table.
>
> Francesco, if it's beneficial for your client to use Climate Zone #3, I
> think you could make a case for that based on Joe's insights and
> information.  If your project is registered with USGBC, you can ask
> questions in advance of a formal submission of the modeling results - that
> might be worth doing to settle the question before defining the model.
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 10:42 AM, Joe Huang <
> yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com> wrote:
>
>> I beg to differ on this.  ASHRAE Climate Zones are very simply defined
>> based of degree days, plus what I consider a  faulty use of precipitation
>> to differentiate "wet" from "dry" climates.  When a EPW stat file gives the
>> ASHRAE Climate Zone as 3, it's simply reporting the number of degree days
>> in the file, and in that sense, absolutely correct.  The reason for the
>> discrepancy is that ASHRAE 90.1, or actually ASHRAE Standard 169 (Climate
>> Data for Building Design Standards), did their climate zone mapping, they
>> came up with a degree day value that put Rome in Climate Zone 4. The
>> problem in this case is that all 3 weather files for Rome that I've looked
>> into (IWEC, IWEC2, IGDG - the one  used by Francesco) show HDD from 1440 to
>> 1514, much below the 2000 HDD to fall into  Climate Zone 4. I have a good
>> idea how Standard 169 derived its degree days, but am waiting for
>> confirmation lest I misspeak.
>>
>> In the meanwhile, I would also recommend using the climate zone shown in
>> 90.1 to set the reference building, but only because that's what listed,
>> not because it's technically better.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> Joe Huang
>> White Box Technologies, Inc.
>> 346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A
>> Moraga CA 94556yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.comhttp://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com for simulation-ready weather data
>> (o) (925)388-0265
>> (c) (510)928-2683
>> "building energy simulations at your fingertips"
>>
>> On 2/3/2016 6:43 AM, Jim Dirkes wrote:
>>
>> Francesco,
>> As I recall, the E+ weather files derive the climate zone based on
>> various attributes of the weather data.  In fact, I think there is a
>> qualifying statement within the .EPW files which says the climate zone may
>> not be "perfect"
>> For that reason, I would use the climate zone referenced in 90.1
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 9:15 AM, Francesco Passerini <
>> <fpasserini.tn at gmail.com>fpasserini.tn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In order to understand what thermal transmittances I shall impose in a
>>> baseline model for LEED, I have to understand in what climate zone I shall
>>> consider Rome.
>>> In TABLE B-3 "International Climate Zones" of ASHRAE 90.1-2010,
>>> "Roma/Fiumicion" is zone 4, while in the weather file zone 3C is indicated.
>>> The weather file for Fiumicino is available here:
>>>
>>> https://energyplus.net/weather-location/europe_wmo_region_6/ITA//ITA_Roma-Fiumicino.162420_IGDG
>>> If you see the .stat file, HDD18°C = 1514, which respects the thermal
>>> criteria for zone 3C (see Table B-4).
>>> Is TABLE B-3 based on other weather data?
>>> Best Regards
>>> Francesco
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> James V Dirkes II, PE, BEMP, LEED AP
>> CEO/President
>> The Building Performance Team Inc.
>> 1631 Acacia Dr, GR, Mi 49504
>>
>> Direct: 616.450.8653
>> <jim at buildingperformanceteam.com>jim at buildingperformanceteam.com
>>
>> Website <http://buildingperformanceteamcom>l  LinkedIn
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jim-dirkes/7/444/413>
>>
>> Fail faster!
>>
>>
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>
>
> --
>
> James V Dirkes II, PE, BEMP, LEED AP
> CEO/President
> The Building Performance Team Inc.
> 1631 Acacia Dr, GR, Mi 49504
>
> Direct: 616.450.8653
> jim at buildingperformanceteam.com
>
> Website <http://buildingperformanceteamcom>l  LinkedIn
> <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jim-dirkes/7/444/413>
>
> Fail faster!
>
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