[Bldg-sim] climate zone Rome

Wed Feb 3 07:57:16 PST 2016

Joe,

Just wanted to add to Jim’s note of appreciation.  You are a constant source of insight on a wide ranging set of topics the modeling field.  The historical perspective (and not saying you’re old!) is fantastic, even for many of us that have been at this for a while.  Thanks.

Paul

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From: Bldg-sim <bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>> on behalf of Jim Dirkes <jim at buildingperformanceteam.com<mailto:jim at buildingperformanceteam.com>>
Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 9:53 AM
To: Joe Huang <yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com<mailto:yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com>>
Cc: "bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>" <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>>
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] climate zone Rome

Thanks, Joe. I appreciate the additional insights. I suspect that LEED reviewers don't know as much background as you do and are inclined to follow the 90.1 table.

Francesco, if it's beneficial for your client to use Climate Zone #3, I think you could make a case for that based on Joe's insights and information.  If your project is registered with USGBC, you can ask questions in advance of a formal submission of the modeling results - that might be worth doing to settle the question before defining the model.

On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 10:42 AM, Joe Huang <yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com<mailto:yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com>> wrote:
I beg to differ on this.  ASHRAE Climate Zones are very simply defined based of degree days, plus what I consider a  faulty use of precipitation to differentiate "wet" from "dry" climates.  When a EPW stat file gives the ASHRAE Climate Zone as 3, it's simply reporting the number of degree days in the file, and in that sense, absolutely correct.  The reason for the discrepancy is that ASHRAE 90.1, or actually ASHRAE Standard 169 (Climate Data for Building Design Standards), did their climate zone mapping, they came up with a degree day value that put Rome in Climate Zone 4. The problem in this case is that all 3 weather files for Rome that I've looked into (IWEC, IWEC2, IGDG - the one  used by Francesco) show HDD from 1440 to 1514, much below the 2000 HDD to fall into  Climate Zone 4. I have a good idea how Standard 169 derived its degree days, but am waiting for confirmation lest I misspeak.

In the meanwhile, I would also recommend using the climate zone shown in 90.1 to set the reference building, but only because that's what listed, not because it's technically better.

Joe

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On 2/3/2016 6:43 AM, Jim Dirkes wrote:
Francesco,
As I recall, the E+ weather files derive the climate zone based on various attributes of the weather data.  In fact, I think there is a qualifying statement within the .EPW files which says the climate zone may not be "perfect"
For that reason, I would use the climate zone referenced in 90.1

On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 9:15 AM, Francesco Passerini <<mailto:fpasserini.tn at gmail.com>fpasserini.tn at gmail.com<mailto:fpasserini.tn at gmail.com>> wrote:
In order to understand what thermal transmittances I shall impose in a baseline model for LEED, I have to understand in what climate zone I shall consider Rome.
In TABLE B-3 "International Climate Zones" of ASHRAE 90.1-2010, "Roma/Fiumicion" is zone 4, while in the weather file zone 3C is indicated.
The weather file for Fiumicino is available here:
 https://energyplus.net/weather-location/europe_wmo_region_6/ITA//ITA_Roma-Fiumicino.162420_IGDG
If you see the .stat file, HDD18°C = 1514, which respects the thermal criteria for zone 3C (see Table B-4).
Is TABLE B-3 based on other weather data?
Best Regards
Francesco

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