[Equest-users] Active Chilled Beam/Fan Coil System

[Bruce Easterbrook]

Strange, I just got 2 McAfee GroupShield alerts on something coming from 
onebuilding.org. time stamp 18:01:24.  I don't run McAfee on my 
systems.  My system did scan your incoming email and files Greg, no 
warnings.  I sent a reply to your 3:00 pm email about 7:30 my time, did 
you receive that?  I haven't opened your files but if I get a chance I 
will scan them and open them on an old computer.  Thanks for the warning.
Bruce

On 09/04/2010 07:26 PM, Greg Collins wrote:
>
> So apparently somebody's computer started doing some funky stuff after 
> download the files I attached to my previous email.
>
> DO NOT DOWNLOAD THEM until it's figured out if they caused her problems.
>
> Was anybody else able to successfully open them or have similar problems?
>
> Greg
>
> *From:* Greg Collins
> *Sent:* Friday, April 09, 2010 3:00 PM
> *To:* 'Bruce Easterbrook'
> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* RE: [Equest-users] Active Chilled Beam/Fan Coil System
>
> Thanks to everybody for the interest and feedback so far..
>
> Chilled water supply to the beams is 56F.
>
> I've attached my inp and pd2 files in case anybody wants a closer look.
>
> Greg
>
> *From:* Bruce Easterbrook [mailto:bruce5 at bellnet.ca]
> *Sent:* Friday, April 09, 2010 2:24 PM
> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Active Chilled Beam/Fan Coil System
>
> Maybe you are now running into what eQuest uses to prevent 
> condensation on the chilled beam coil.  Condensation would be allowed 
> in the FCU as it could/would have a drain tray.  Where the mixing 
> takes place is important on the chilled beam.  eQuest should consider 
> the mixing takes place after the coil and the warm humid air is 
> entering the coil.  I would think eQuest would be set up to prevent 
> condensation on the coil, you don't want water dripping out of the 
> unit.  What is the temperature of your chilled water supply?
> Bruce
>
> On 09/04/2010 04:32 PM, Greg Collins wrote:
>
> I have tried it, but I end up getting an error saying the leaving air 
> temp off the coil needs to be at least 6F higher than the entering 
> water temp to the coil, and for some reason I don't get the same error 
> for the FCU.  In an active chilled beam, the coil is actually just 
> cooling the room induction air, then mixing it with the primary air 
> from the DOAS.  I think that equest assumes the air mixes before 
> entering the coil, which fundamentally is the same thing, but the 
> numbers trip this error message.  I'll look into more why the FC 
> system doesn't make that happen, but the two seem to be essentially 
> the same system except for the fan (which I make 0.000001 kW/cfm anyway).
>
> *From:* Grando, John [mailto:JGrando at cosentini.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, April 09, 2010 1:00 PM
> *To:* Greg Collins; Bruce Easterbrook
> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org 
> <mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> *Subject:* RE: [Equest-users] Active Chilled Beam/Fan Coil System
>
> Have you looked into SYSTEM TYPE = IU (Induction Unit).  This may be a 
> better path to try.
>
>
> *John Grando** **LEED AP**| **Mechanical Engineer
> *
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* Greg Collins [mailto:GCollins at glumac.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, April 09, 2010 2:00 PM
> *To:* Bruce Easterbrook
> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org 
> <mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Active Chilled Beam/Fan Coil System
>
> Bruce,
>
> I agree with your theory and the justification, but the question is 
> ultimately "how to model it?"  I don't think you can put in negative 
> heat for a baseboard system, hook it up to a chilled water loop and 
> get results you can count on.
>
> Greg
>
> *From:* Bruce Easterbrook [mailto:bruce5 at bellnet.ca]
> *Sent:* Friday, April 09, 2010 8:59 AM
> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org 
> <mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Active Chilled Beam/Fan Coil System
>
>     I'm not totally up on using DOAS with eQuest or with chilled beams 
> being in Canada but it would seem to me the OA will have to be used to 
> control humidity in the space.  The chilled beam should not be used 
> for latent cooling, sensible only, to prevent condensation issues.  
> The DOAS will need to control the dewpoint of the room air and 
> maintain it below the operating temperature of the coil in the chilled 
> beam.  The chilled beam would only be dealing with the sensible load 
> from the space.  The DOAS would do everything else.  The question 
> would be will eQuest allow a single zone AHU c/w economizer and a 
> baseboard system with negative heat?  I have never tried that with eQuest.
> Bruce Easterbrook
> Abode Engineering
>
> On 08/04/2010 04:46 PM, James Hansen wrote:
>
> I'm interested in this as well -- I know that in DOAS systems like 
> active chilled beams, the primary air often takes on a fairly large 
> chunk of space latent cooling, and if this can't be passed on from the 
> DOAS system to the space, then I don't see how we can believe the results.
>
> *GHT Limited
> **James Hansen, PE, LEED AP*
>
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> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org 
> <mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org> 
> [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of 
> *Greg Collins
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 08, 2010 4:39 PM
> *To:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org 
> <mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> *Subject:* [Equest-users] Active Chilled Beam/Fan Coil System
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm working on modeling an active chilled beam system.  It consists of 
> the chilled beams and a dedicated unit to provide primary air (mainly 
> ventilation air) to the beams at 55 degrees.  I've modeled the chilled 
> beam system as a fan coil system, but am wondering about my options 
> for modeling the primary air.
>
> My question is this:  If I attach the primary/ventilation air unit to 
> the fan coil system in the FC's Outdoor Air tab under "Outside Air 
> from System" will the temperature of the air coming from that unit 
> have an impact on the load in the space?  I have a ton of hours at 
> very low load during the winter months, and I want eQuest to use the 
> 55 degree primary air as the first stage of cooling for the space and 
> not "double up" the cooling energy by cooling the 55 degree air and 
> then not use that for cooling in the zones.
>
> If anybody has some input, it would be appreciated.
>
> *Greg Collins*
> Design Engineer / Energy Analyst
>
> Mechanical Department
> LEED® Accredited Professional
>
> http://www.glumac.com/glumacsig.gif <http://www.glumac.com/>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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