[Equest-users] Active Chilled Beam/Fan Coil System

[Carol Gardner]

Re: the funky stuff

Hi Greg, all,

Here's what happened. I downloaded the .inp & .pd2 files. I clicked on
Greg's .pd2 file to open it and it opened an .inp file of the last project I
worked on, not his .inp file. I have no idea why this happened. I was not in
eQUEST at the time. I immediately called you Greg, and thanks for
broadcasting the info, then I began running my anti-virus program, in my
case AVG. No virus. I wonder if the .pd2 file was corrupted in some way. It
looked awfully small in comparison to the .inp file. Perhaps someone on the
development team will let us know, perhaps not.

I had a couple of scary hours because as a result of whatever happened I was
unable to open email, my caps lock key worked backwards, and I wasn't able
to restart my computer. The good news is that completely turning the
computer off and back on seems to have cleared up the situation.

Carol



On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Bruce Easterbrook <bruce5 at bellnet.ca> wrote:

>  Strange, I just got 2 McAfee GroupShield alerts on something coming from
> onebuilding.org. time stamp 18:01:24.  I don't run McAfee on my systems.
> My system did scan your incoming email and files Greg, no warnings.  I sent
> a reply to your 3:00 pm email about 7:30 my time, did you receive that?  I
> haven't opened your files but if I get a chance I will scan them and open
> them on an old computer.  Thanks for the warning.
> Bruce
>
>
> On 09/04/2010 07:26 PM, Greg Collins wrote:
>
>  So apparently somebody’s computer started doing some funky stuff after
> download the files I attached to my previous email.
>
>
>
> DO NOT DOWNLOAD THEM until it’s figured out if they caused her problems.
>
>
>
> Was anybody else able to successfully open them or have similar problems?
>
>
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> *From:* Greg Collins
> *Sent:* Friday, April 09, 2010 3:00 PM
> *To:* 'Bruce Easterbrook'
> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* RE: [Equest-users] Active Chilled Beam/Fan Coil System
>
>
>
> Thanks to everybody for the interest and feedback so far..
>
>
>
> Chilled water supply to the beams is 56F.
>
>
>
> I’ve attached my inp and pd2 files in case anybody wants a closer look.
>
>
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> *From:* Bruce Easterbrook [mailto:bruce5 at bellnet.ca <bruce5 at bellnet.ca>]
> *Sent:* Friday, April 09, 2010 2:24 PM
> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Active Chilled Beam/Fan Coil System
>
>
>
> Maybe you are now running into what eQuest uses to prevent condensation on
> the chilled beam coil.  Condensation would be allowed in the FCU as it
> could/would have a drain tray.  Where the mixing takes place is important on
> the chilled beam.  eQuest should consider the mixing takes place after the
> coil and the warm humid air is entering the coil.  I would think eQuest
> would be set up to prevent condensation on the coil, you don't want water
> dripping out of the unit.  What is the temperature of your chilled water
> supply?
> Bruce
>
> On 09/04/2010 04:32 PM, Greg Collins wrote:
>
> I have tried it, but I end up getting an error saying the leaving air temp
> off the coil needs to be at least 6F higher than the entering water temp to
> the coil, and for some reason I don’t get the same error for the FCU.  In an
> active chilled beam, the coil is actually just cooling the room induction
> air, then mixing it with the primary air from the DOAS.  I think that equest
> assumes the air mixes before entering the coil, which fundamentally is the
> same thing, but the numbers trip this error message.  I’ll look into more
> why the FC system doesn’t make that happen, but the two seem to be
> essentially the same system except for the fan (which I make 0.000001 kW/cfm
> anyway).
>
>
>
> *From:* Grando, John [mailto:JGrando at cosentini.com <JGrando at cosentini.com>]
>
> *Sent:* Friday, April 09, 2010 1:00 PM
> *To:* Greg Collins; Bruce Easterbrook
> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* RE: [Equest-users] Active Chilled Beam/Fan Coil System
>
>
>
> Have you looked into SYSTEM TYPE = IU (Induction Unit).  This may be a
> better path to try.
>
>
>
>
> *John Grando** **LEED AP**| **Mechanical Engineer
> *
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Greg Collins [mailto:GCollins at glumac.com <GCollins at glumac.com>]
> *Sent:* Friday, April 09, 2010 2:00 PM
> *To:* Bruce Easterbrook
> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Active Chilled Beam/Fan Coil System
>
> Bruce,
>
>
>
> I agree with your theory and the justification, but the question is
> ultimately “how to model it?”  I don’t think you can put in negative heat
> for a baseboard system, hook it up to a chilled water loop and get results
> you can count on.
>
>
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> *From:* Bruce Easterbrook [mailto:bruce5 at bellnet.ca <bruce5 at bellnet.ca>]
> *Sent:* Friday, April 09, 2010 8:59 AM
> *Cc:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Active Chilled Beam/Fan Coil System
>
>
>
>     I'm not totally up on using DOAS with eQuest or with chilled beams
> being in Canada but it would seem to me the OA will have to be used to
> control humidity in the space.  The chilled beam should not be used for
> latent cooling, sensible only, to prevent condensation issues.  The DOAS
> will need to control the dewpoint of the room air and maintain it below the
> operating temperature of the coil in the chilled beam.  The chilled beam
> would only be dealing with the sensible load from the space.  The DOAS would
> do everything else.  The question would be will eQuest allow a single zone
> AHU c/w economizer and a baseboard system with negative heat?  I have never
> tried that with eQuest.
> Bruce Easterbrook
> Abode Engineering
>
> On 08/04/2010 04:46 PM, James Hansen wrote:
>
> I’m interested in this as well – I know that in DOAS systems like active
> chilled beams, the primary air often takes on a fairly large chunk of space
> latent cooling, and if this can’t be passed on from the DOAS system to the
> space, then I don’t see how we can believe the results.
>
>
>
> *GHT Limited
> **James Hansen, PE, LEED AP*
>
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>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [
> mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org<equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *Greg Collins
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 08, 2010 4:39 PM
> *To:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* [Equest-users] Active Chilled Beam/Fan Coil System
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I’m working on modeling an active chilled beam system.  It consists of the
> chilled beams and a dedicated unit to provide primary air (mainly
> ventilation air) to the beams at 55 degrees.  I’ve modeled the chilled beam
> system as a fan coil system, but am wondering about my options for modeling
> the primary air.
>
>
>
> My question is this:  If I attach the primary/ventilation air unit to the
> fan coil system in the FC’s Outdoor Air tab under “Outside Air from System”
> will the temperature of the air coming from that unit have an impact on the
> load in the space?  I have a ton of hours at very low load during the winter
> months, and I want eQuest to use the 55 degree primary air as the first
> stage of cooling for the space and not “double up” the cooling energy by
> cooling the 55 degree air and then not use that for cooling in the zones.
>
>
>
> If anybody has some input, it would be appreciated.
>
>
>
> *Greg Collins*
> Design Engineer / Energy Analyst
>
> Mechanical Department
> LEED® Accredited Professional
>
> [image: http://www.glumac.com/glumacsig.gif] <http://www.glumac.com/>
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