[UA] True King (was Re: Gardener)

[Chad Underkoffler]

> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:27:26 -0500
> From: Matt Norwood <rowan at media.mit.edu>
> 
> > > Eh. Honestly, I thought that publishing the True King
> > > really threw everyone off the idea of UA avatars. It
> > > was too abstract, especially after we had all read 
> > > the "unshaven guy on a motorcycle with a big gun" 
> > > archetype in the core book.
> > 
> > Hey, you're welcome. One does try.
> 
> Ach. Sorry, Chad. I don't mean to dis you or the avatar as a
> stand-alone publication.

No worries. Bygones.

> But I just think that the Masterless Man -- so specific and so

> pop-culch in its published form (big gun or sword, motorcycle 
> or horse, stubble) -- shouldn't coexist in a Clergy that 
> contains something as abstract as the TK. If the TK is a UA 
> archetype, then a lot of the published archetypes need to
> get a lot more general in their focus. 

I agree with that assertion; archetypes should be, well,
archtypical.

> The TK is near the level of the Jungian archetypes, along
> with the Trickster, the Fool, the Magus, the Shadow, the 
> Anima/Animus, etc. If UA had decided early on to go that 
> route, we'd see the Outsider broadened into the Shadow, 
> subsuming the Dark Stalker and the Savage. We'd see the 
> WECHBY turned into the Anima. And the True King would
> probably be an aspect of the Father.

Probably; inspiration-wise, I was riffing off a combo of the
Fool, the Pilgrim, and Tarot-related imagery with a strong
Jungian and Frazerian flavor.

> UA archetypes strike me as more cinematic, more media-created:
> the Flying Woman and the Masterless Man being prime examples. 

Interesting; Greg (correct me if I'm wrong) is a little
concerned about the TK concept because of that media-influence
aspect... goes back to the Steroetypes vs. Archetype discussion
thread we had a while back. Personally, I always saw the
Masterless Man as being more media-influenced via the Clint
Eastwood and Samurai/ronin movies, and the TK being more
Jungian.

Greg, what do you think?

> Maybe I'm wrong. I keep coming back to the MM as an example
> of one of those media-created archetypes, probably because I 
> just don't buy Greg's claim that hitorical avatars exist. 

I see historical avatars as human pattern matching, Jesus being
the ultimate example of interpolating into just about any
avatar.

> It could work if the channels weren't so combat-oriented, 
> maybe. Then you'd get all the Rebels and Individualists under
> that archetype. 

I've always thought that the Reble and the Outsider should be
collapsed. There's some weird crossover between Healer and
Confessor, too, but not as direct.

> Ditto for the Dark Stalker: the channel involving the use of
> two or three specific weapons was the one that really turned 
> me off to that archetype.

I would have liked a more boogey-man archetype, not directly
connected to the Jack the Ripper thang. That could be
rationalized as "the modern spin on the Archetype" though.

[True King could replace almost every other archetype]

> > I disagree -- a TK of hospitals (or a hospital... oooh, 
> > St. Eligus, cool) would only care about the people in 
> > that hospital (doctors, nurses, patients, orderlies, etc.),
> > not the wide-ranging "heal the world" vibe that the Healer 
> > has going on.
> 
> Okay, you're right. Maybe it's the name of the archetype that
> throws me off: I might find it easier to swallow if it were
> called the Steward of the Land or something.

I can dig that.

> > > And it's too saccharine.
> > Again, I disagree. Depending upon how you look at it, a 
> > TK is a frightening concept: someone who's convinced the 
> > Cosmos that he's fit to rule. Even Arthur slaughtered the 
> > innocents, and he's the prime TK stereotype.
> 
> Yeah, you're right. I guess it's just important to remember
> that the TK is very specific in its meaning: I've concluded 
> that it lends itself to overly broad interpretation after 
> hearing a lot of ideas like, "Maybe the Naked Goddess is 
> channelling the True King of Licking My Nuts!"

Heh. THAT'S a Mak Attax mailing list thread if I ever heard one.

> I think the Martyr is really close to the TK: they both
> identify so completely with a "cause" (i.e. organization, 
> place, etc.) that they can give of themselves completely to 
> it. 

Right, they're in the same vein, see also the Pilgrim. Hmmm....
interesting thought, a "constellation" of avatars of the
"subordinate to something" stripes, all working towards
relatively similar goals. Could be a neat campaign set up.

Good discussion!




=====
Chad Underkoffler [chadu at yahoo.com]
http://www.geocities.com/chadu/index.html
"Now that is the kind of puddin' that only two-hundred forty dollars can buy."
  -- Barry, $240 Worth of Pudding, THE STATE

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

_______________________________________________
UA mailing list
UA at lists.uchicago.edu
http://lists.uchicago.edu/mailman/listinfo/ua