[UA] Morality (Spoilers for Bi3P)

[Chad Underkoffler]

> From: "James Palmer" <jamespalmer39 at hotmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 18:58:30 -0500
> 
> [Chad] 
> Which may very well be the point: morality and heroism are
> hard choices which limit you. It can be argued that that's
> true in the real world. Interesting points, and one worth 
> thinking about. But not fun to game out for some people who
> wish light entertainment from their gaming.
>
> [James] I think UA reflects the reality of the world very
> well in its power groups.  Those people who have, as far 
> as the OU is concerned, big mojo generally have good 
> intentions, tinged with a heavy longing for power, and 
> are compromised, though not necessarily fatally, by the 
> rest of the world. From my experiences with people who have 
> real-world power, that’s a fairly good picture.  You get 
> exceptions, on both sides, but the general rule, as with
> most things, is shades of grey.

Agreed. UA is an excellent reflection of the real world. But I
think many of the people with bad reactions to the game fall
into the category of not wanting an accurate reflection of the
real world. They want a level of abstraction, where good and
evil are easily identified and able to be confronted. IMAO>

> [Chad] However, over and above that, there's a strong feeling
> engendered by the setting that if a PC risks his life to save
> the child from the tenebrae, scooping the toddler up and 
> running away from the monster, the child promptly bite his
> head off with relish-- because it's actually a baby corpse 
> inhabited by a teeny-tiny Unspeakable Servant.
>
> [James] Bollocks.  Name me one instance where making a 
> heroic/moral choice has this type of nasty and *unexpected* 
> consequence.  Sure, heroic actions can be fatal - but they 
> wouldn’t be heroic, if they weren’t?  They’re not *pointless*,

> though, as the heroism in this example is.

I think some of this feeling is imputed by things like 

(SPOILERS for the "Bill in Three Persons" scenario from the core
book)











* Epidero Bill's daughter. 



She's dead in the scenario, but they're made to think she isn't.
Nothing the PCs do can save her. It's too late. 

This smacks of unfairness to many players, I think. What can be
an interesting turn in a story to a reader becomes upsetting to
a player who may feel as he has lost his empowerment. 

> [James] One of the great things about the UA setting is
> that it isn’t dark. There are bad things out there, and
> there are bad people out there, but they aren’t 
> overwhelmingly, unstoppably powerful.  It’ not a 
> nihilistic game. The White Wolf games, on the other hand,
> give off that message very, very strongly.

I think that one of the game's taglines, "What would you risk to
change the world?" has an effect here, too. It forces the player
to think in terms of "all change has a price." I think many
people who are gaming for light entertainment want that choice
to be easy, clear, and less complex than the choices in real
life.

> [James] More generally, and ranting for a moment, I think
> that the rpg community - and the sf/fantasy community, come
> to think of it - have a tendency to focus on a model of 
> heroism that isn’t that useful (that of the ‘immediate hero,’
> who leaps boldly to the rescue), and then whinge that the 
> rest of the world - and mainstream literature - has forgotten 
> what ‘true heroism’ is.  I hereby name CASTLE FALKENSTEIN and 
> 7TH SEA as particular offenders in this regard.  Heroes in
> real life - well, sometimes they’re people who save 
> babies from burning fires, but more often they’re the people 
> who work day in, day out with abused children, on tiny 
> salaries and long hours, or who hide Jews in their cellar for 
> three years, and they very rarely confront the Dark Lord with 
> blades flashing.  (My favourite analogy, actually, is 
> with aid work.  Doctors, who get all the glamour, are quite 
> often heroes, yes, but it’s the sanitation engineers who save 
> ten times as many lives.)

See what I said above. I agree with you, to an extent. Real
heroism is all about the continual things. But I do find value
in the immediate, idealistic hero idea, too. 

And leaving out the concept of abstracting thorny problems into
simplified black & white terms to be more easily dealt with, I
would argue that stories of the ideal and immediate flashing
blades hero are what help inspire some of those heroic
sanitation engineers. If thinking about Sir Gawain helps me deal
with issues at work or memories of Superman helps someone tackle
a shoplifter at an SF convention or pretending to be Sundiata
helps someone persevere, isn't heroism in the light
entertainment mode valuable? 

Can UA support both flavors of heroism out of the box? It
definitely can for the realistic heroism, no problem. But can it
operate on that idealistic abstract heroism plane? I'm not sure.

Opinions?


=====
Chad Underkoffler [chadu at yahoo.com]
http://www.geocities.com/chadu/index.html
"Hold your breath. Make a wish. Count to three."
  -- Willy Wonka

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