[TRNSYS-users] TRNSYS-users Digest, Vol 96, Issue 29
David BRADLEY
d.bradley at tess-inc.com
Mon Jan 7 08:53:45 PST 2013
Martin,
I am afraid I don't know where you might get that source code. From
time to time, users are kind enough to package up components that they
have written and we add them to the TRNLib resource online. I am not
familiar, though, with the Type177 that you mention.
Kind regards,
David
On 12/23/2012 05:47, Martin Ssembatya wrote:
> Hey David, i saw that there is a Type 177 that was used by IEA - SHC
> task 25. This model is freely available at www.eta.tu-berlin.de
> <http://www.eta.tu-berlin.de>, however the author at this site doesn't
> give the source code of the model. I realized that one of the four
> options under this type was specifically developed for Yazaki model
> WFC 10, the exact chiller model i am simulating. He suggests that we
> can get the source code from from www.iea-shc-task25.com
> <http://www.iea-shc-task25.com>, but i checked this source and it so
> happened that source code link is nolonger available since 2009. Could
> you be having an idea of how i can get this source code??? thanks
>
> Best regards
> Martin
>
> On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 8:34 PM, <trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu
> <mailto:trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu>> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Yazaki chiller unit model (David BRADLEY)
> 2. Re: Defining transparent wall (David BRADLEY)
> 3. Re: building simulation (David BRADLEY)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: David BRADLEY <d.bradley at tess-inc.com
> <mailto:d.bradley at tess-inc.com>>
> To: Martin Ssembatya <mssembatya at gmail.com
> <mailto:mssembatya at gmail.com>>
> Cc: trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu <mailto:trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 11:05:01 -0600
> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Yazaki chiller unit model
> Martin,
> I would recommend that you make a very simple project where the
> chiller is subject to a known constant load with known constant
> outdoor conditions. Hook up a Type65 online plotter to the chiller
> and take a look at its performance under these known conditions;
> once the model looks up the performance data in the data file, its
> computations are really quite simplistic. You can verify them by
> hand using the documentation in the 04-Mathematical Reference.
> This will give you some confidence in your model.
>
> One of the issues that often occurs in modeling absorption
> chillers is that if you compute a building load and pass it
> directly to the chiller then the chiller spends a lot of its time
> running at a very very low part load. In reality, a chiller can't
> operate much below 20% capacity so you have to make sure that this
> is reflected in the data file. The data file should have near zero
> capacity and near zero fraction of design energy input below about
> 20% PLR (part load ratio). At one time, I think there was an error
> in the Type107 example data file that showed too large a capacity
> at very low PLR. The more correct way to model the system would be
> to place the chiller on its own primary loop and to place the load
> on a secondary loop. The loops can be separated by a thermal
> storage tank whose volume is equal to the volume of the primary
> and secondary loops. The chiller operates to keep the primary loop
> cold and the secondary loop draws off only as much as it needs to
> meet the load.
> Kind regards,
> David
>
>
>
> On 12/19/2012 01:51, Martin Ssembatya wrote:
>> Hello there,
>> I have been modelling a solar ooling system that uses one of the
>> YAazaki chiller models. I used type 107 for the modelling of the
>> absorption chiller partly because i did not have satisfactory
>> chiller performance data from the manufacturer to model the
>> chiller unit, but alos because i did not have enough time and
>> compiling language to create my own model for this chiller. /But
>> on using type 107 for this purpose, i am not getting satifactory
>> results from my simulation i.e. the chilling energy is always too
>> low compared to the rated capacity of the chiller regardless of
>> the season of the year, including summer periods with high
>> insolation values. Is there any one who could have created a
>> TRNSYS model for any Yazaki absorption chiller unit? If yes, can
>> you kindly help me with that model you created and to use it in
>> my simulation and see its effect on results. I will be very
>> grateful. /
>> Best regards
>> Martin
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TRNSYS-users mailing list
>> TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu <mailto:TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu>
>> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>
> --
> ***************************
> David BRADLEY
> Principal
> Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
> 22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
> Madison, WI 53703 USA
>
> P:+1.608.274.2577
> F:+1.608.278.1475
> d.bradley at tess-inc.com <mailto:d.bradley at tess-inc.com>
>
> http://www.tess-inc.com
> http://www.trnsys.com
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: David BRADLEY <d.bradley at tess-inc.com
> <mailto:d.bradley at tess-inc.com>>
> To: Martin Ssembatya <mssembatya at gmail.com
> <mailto:mssembatya at gmail.com>>
> Cc: trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu <mailto:trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 11:14:23 -0600
> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Defining transparent wall
> Martin,
> A few years back, I was faced with modeling some greenhouses
> that were covered by a plastic film. I ended up modeling them as a
> window in Type56 and worked a lot in LBNL's WINDOW5 software to
> create a glazing system that represented the plastic film. The
> process was no different from creating any other new window for
> TRNBuild/Type56. I wasn't entirely happy with the solution in part
> because of the diffusion of the incoming solar caused by the
> plastic. However, it was the best I could do at the time and the
> results were defensible. At the time, I also looked for (and
> found) some models of actual greenhouses that people had
> developed. None of them suited the project very well but that
> might be a good avenue to pursue as well.
> Kind regards,
> David
>
>
> On 12/12/2012 02:26, Martin Ssembatya wrote:
>> Hello there,
>>
>> I am using TRNSYS 16 to estimate the total cooling requirement of
>> three temporally built structures. One of the structures is a
>> tent whose vertical walls contain like 50 percent plastic
>> transparent parts. How can i create a layer and define it to be
>> transparent to the incoming radiation?? I know that this must be
>> having a huge effect on the total cooling requirement. Can
>> someone please help me with some ideas how this can be done?!
>>
>> Thanks
>> Martin
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TRNSYS-users mailing list
>> TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu <mailto:TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu>
>> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>
> --
> ***************************
> David BRADLEY
> Principal
> Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
> 22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
> Madison, WI 53703 USA
>
> P:+1.608.274.2577
> F:+1.608.278.1475
> d.bradley at tess-inc.com <mailto:d.bradley at tess-inc.com>
>
> http://www.tess-inc.com
> http://www.trnsys.com
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: David BRADLEY <d.bradley at tess-inc.com
> <mailto:d.bradley at tess-inc.com>>
> To: Matthias Maier <matthiasmaier90 at googlemail.com
> <mailto:matthiasmaier90 at googlemail.com>>
> Cc: trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu <mailto:trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 11:34:53 -0600
> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] building simulation
> Matthias,
> I think the answer would depend a lot on the complexity of the
> HVAC systems and on the level of detail to which you would need to
> model them. The most comprehensive building models that I have
> done are for LEED projects (proposed building, proposed mechanical
> system, baseline (comparison) building, baseline (comparison) HVAC
> system, and lots of report writing). These projects can range from
> 70 to 200 hours of time with most coming in around 100 to 150.
> Again, though, that is modeling two buildings. To model just the
> one proposed building, I think you would probably be in the range
> of 50 to 150 hours.
>
> Some other thoughts for you, though (which I realize you didn't
> request... ;-) ). Every model, every building simulation tool
> that is out there is some simplification of a real process. The
> more assumptions the model developer builds into the model, the
> simpler the model is to implement but the less flexible it
> becomes. The fewer assumptions that the developer builds in, the
> more flexible the tool but the more complexity there is involved
> with implementing a system model. I have found it helpful to think
> of building energy modeling tools on a sliding scale where on one
> end are tools that are relatively quick to use, which have a LOT
> of built-in assumptions and which are therefore not very flexible.
> One the other end are tools that are very flexible in terms of
> what you can model but which are more time consuming to use.
> TRNSYS is definitely on the "flexible but complex" end of that
> scale - intentionally so. If you are trying to model a building
> that has some unusual features (radiant floors, natural
> ventilation, double skin facades, complex HVAC systems, etc.) in
> it then TRNSYS is a good tool to use, even though it will require
> more hours to implement the model. If the building has nothing but
> conventional envelope and systems then there is no advantage to
> TRNSYS (or other tools like it); you will spend an unnecessarily
> long time implementing the model. On the other hand, it may be
> quick to implement a model in another software but if the building
> has features that cannot be modeled by the other software, you
> need to change to another, more comprehensive or flexible tool.
>
> Best,
> David
>
>
>
>
> On 12/12/2012 09:30, Matthias Maier wrote:
>> Hi TRNSYS-users,
>>
>> I am studying electrical engineering at the Technical University
>> of Munich and currently I am writing my bachelor´s thesis at the
>> Institute for Energy Economy and Application Technology. My
>> subject is the comparison and assessment of various building
>> simulation programs. Background of this thesis is the development
>> of an automatized demand side management for commercial
>> buildings, in case of the emergence of a dynamic electricity
>> tariff in Germany. Therefor a whole thermal simulation of the
>> building and it´s HVAC systems would be necessary.
>>
>> One of my tasks is to estimate the costs for the implementation
>> of a building including its HVAC systems. For this reason I
>> selected an example building to estimate the costs for (added in
>> the attachment). Support referred me to this user service. I
>> would be very grateful if anyone could tell me how long it takes
>> to implement this example building including its HVAC to TRNSYS
>> and perform a high-resolution simulation (minute-basis) for a
>> eperienced user.
>>
>> Thank you for your attention.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Matthias Maier
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TRNSYS-users mailing list
>> TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu <mailto:TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu>
>> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>
> --
> ***************************
> David BRADLEY
> Principal
> Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
> 22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
> Madison, WI 53703 USA
>
> P:+1.608.274.2577
> F:+1.608.278.1475
> d.bradley at tess-inc.com <mailto:d.bradley at tess-inc.com>
>
> http://www.tess-inc.com
> http://www.trnsys.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TRNSYS-users mailing list
> TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu <mailto:TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu>
> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TRNSYS-users mailing list
> TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu
> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
--
***************************
David BRADLEY
Principal
Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
Madison, WI 53703 USA
P:+1.608.274.2577
F:+1.608.278.1475
d.bradley at tess-inc.com
http://www.tess-inc.com
http://www.trnsys.com
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