[TRNSYS-users] Weather Data Reader Type15

Mon Oct 22 18:11:30 PDT 2012

I think you are confused by 3 different problems:

1) Values in an EPW file are instantaneous or averaged depending on the variable. There is some info on the EnergyPlys website(http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/energyplus/weatherdata_format.cfm). Unfortunately  I haven’t found a completely up-to-date, easy to read format definition, which seems strange for a format that wants to be (and has become) a standard. I found better documentation for the TMY3 format, which I think would be useful to you: www.nrel.gov/docs/fy08osti/43156.pdf. In short, the value on a given line for temperature is the instantaneous value at that time (e.g. the 1st  line has the temperature at 1 AM on January 1st). Radiation values are integrated over the previous hour, so that the 1st line gives the total radiation (in Wh/m²) over the hour between 0 AM and 1 AM on January 1st). Since the time step in these file is 1 h you can also understand radiation numbers as average values in W/m².

2) TRNSYS uses average values for ALL variables. “TIME” in TRNSYS always refers to the end of the time step and all variables are averaged over that time step. So if Type 15 reads the temperature during an hourly simulation, the value it should output for other components is not the value that it reads but the average between the line that corresponds to the current time (end of time step) and the line before. In doing that TRNSYS is not really interpolating but rather calculating the average over the time step.

3) Solar radiation projections are typically performed with sun angle values corresponding to the middle of the time step. This is what TRNSYS does (unless sunrise/sunset takes place during the time step). So during an hourly simulation solar radiation is not interpolated or shifted, but sun angles are calculated at the middle of the time step (and since TIME represents the end of the time step, the middle of the time step is half an hour before).

In the case of shorter time steps TRNSYS does interpolate weather data, and it does it differently for radiation than other variables. But this email is getting too long already…

Michaël Kummert

Polytechnique Montréal

From: trnsys-users-bounces at cae.wisc.edu [mailto:trnsys-users-bounces at cae.wisc.edu] On Behalf Of saleh saadi
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 18:34
To: trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Weather Data Reader Type15

Dear Users, 

For those of you who usesTYPE15 (for EPW weather data) in TRNSYS 16. 

Does TYPE 15 shift the solar radiation to the middle of the hour when interpolation is performed? or uses the weather data by the end of an hour and linearly perform the interpolation? 

Thnaks,

Saleh 

  _____  

From: saleh saadi <salehsnjsaadi404 at yahoo.com>
To: waseem khan <waseemshahkhan at gmail.com>; "trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu" <trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu> 
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: Weather Data Reader Type15 

Thanks Waseem, 

It is not about a specific weather file. 

I'm developing my own weather model reader and processor in Simulink. I have used results from E+ to verify my model but seems to be off at some times . So, I used TRNSYS _16,  TYPE 15 to determine the solar radiation on south vertical surface using Perez model and compared that to my Simulink and E+ results. I figured that TYPE 15 interpolates the weather file (even at 1 hour time step) and therefore can't use it for verification. I was expecting that TYPE15 will read the weather file without interpolation when time step is 1 hr.  Is there a way with this type or others to get the values at the beginning (or end ) of each hour rather than interpolating values at the mid of the hour?

Thanks,

Saleh 

  _____  

From: waseem khan <waseemshahkhan at gmail.com>
To: trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu 
Cc: salehsnjsaadi404 at yahoo.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 2:56 AM
Subject: Re: TRNSYS-users Digest, Vol 94, Issue 30

Dear saleh saadi,

Salam, Please let me know the weather file name ?

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 1:52 PM, <trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

   1. Weather Data Reader  Type15 (saleh saadi)
   2. Re: Fwd: Converging error (hotline)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: saleh saadi <salehsnjsaadi404 at yahoo.com>
To: "trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu" <trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
Cc: 
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 22:38:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TRNSYS-users] Weather Data Reader Type15

Dear user, 

I'm trying to extract some weather data from TRNSYS -16  after reading and processing EPW file using Pereze model (time step 1 hr). I have noticed that this TYPE interpolates the variables including the air temperature. Is there a way to extract the data without interpolation using this type or others?

regards,

Saleh ALSaadi 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "hotline" <hotline at transsolar.com>
To: wanghongyang1767 <wanghongyang1767 at gmail.com>
Cc: trnsys-users <trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 10:21:53 +0200
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Fwd: Converging error

Dear Wang, 

1) I use TRNSYS 16, there is no TSGRD in TYPE 56.
Ok. Please always include the TRNSYS release number . 

2) The height over sea level of Default is 0 m I used.
Default values NEED to be adapted to your data! 

3) You are right. I tried to use *.tm2 weather data, this Error disappeared! 

As I mentioned previous, there must be an error in your data file. Link the outputs to the online/printer for checking 

4) Yes, The data reader Type 9 is placed after the building now for my simulation., 

For a successive method all input data types should be placed at the beginning. 

Check the component order and rearrange it. 

Marion 

Dipl.-Ing. Marion Hiller 
TRANSSOLAR: KlimaEngineering - Technologien für energieeffizientes Bauen und Nutzerkomfort in Gebäude 
Munich - New York - Stuttgart + 49.711.67976.0 

Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH, Curiestrasse 2, 70563 Stuttgart 
Amtsgericht Stuttgart - HRB 23347, Steuernummer 99073/00911, USt-IdNr.: DE152272639 

Geschäftsführer: Dipl.Ing. Matthias Schuler, Dipl.Ing. Thomas Auer, Dipl.Phys. Stefan Holst, Prof. Dipl.-Ing. Bleicher  

  _____  

Von: 王洋 [mailto:wanghongyang1767 at gmail.com] 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. Oktober 2012 13:37
An: hotline
Cc: trnsys-users
Betreff: Re: Fwd: Converging error 

Dear Marion,

Many thanks for your patient reply!

1) I use TRNSYS 16, there is no TSGRD in TYPE 56.
2) The height over sea level of Default is 0 m I used.
3) You are right. I tried to use *.tm2 weather data, this Error disappeared! But my Userdefined weather data is TRN/TRY weather data. Why does it result in aforementioned Errors (Converging error by my past emails)? 
If I must use our own TRN/TRY weather data, how to avoid this Converging error?
4) Yes, The data reader Type 9 is placed after the building now for my simulation., Do you mean Type 9 should be placed before the Building Type 56? Is Better?

Many thanks in advance!

Br.

wang 

2012/10/10 hotline <hotline at transsolar.com> 

Dear Wang, 

there are several issues within your simulation concerning the outside longwave exchange of external surfaces 

1.)     You didn’t connect TSGRD such that it is set 0 =>  If you have no information set it Tamb 

2.)     For Sky temperature calculation with Type 69, you forgot to enter the height above sea level. 

3.)     You read the ambient temperature and the relative air humditiy from a userdefined file by type 9 
instead of using the data from the weather file. 
This file wasn’t attached, but it might be an error source especially when interpolating incorrect data.
For testing, please use the ambient temperature and rel. humidity from the assigned weather file throughout your simulation.
Please check your userdefined data and the outputs of Type 9 WITHOUT connecting them to TYPE 56. 

4.)     In addition, please check the component order. The data reader Type 9 is placed after the building. 

Marion 

  _____  

Von: 王洋 [mailto:wanghongyang1767 at gmail.com] 
Gesendet: Montag, 8. Oktober 2012 15:31
An: trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu; hotline
Betreff: Fwd: Converging error 

Dear Marion and TRNSYS Users,

Thanks for your reply!

I checked all you mentioned, I can't find any special/abnormal settings. Furthermore, it runs well when the time step is 1 hour. For other steps e.g. 0.1 h, 0.2 h or 0.5 h, it appears that ERROR.

Please help me have a look at the attached project if you are free.

Many thanks in advance!

br.

wang 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: 王洋 <wanghongyang1767 at gmail.com>
Date: 2012/9/28
Subject: Converging error
To: trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu, hotline at transsolar.com

---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
From: "hotline" <hotline at transsolar.com>
To: trnsys-users <trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
Cc: 
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 12:02:00 +0200
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Converging error 

Wang, 

This problem may occur from incorrect ambient condition settings: 

Please check the following inputs of Type 56 

1- TAMB 

2- RELHUMAMB 

3- TSKY 

4- TSGRD 

In addition make sure that in the BUI file the surface 

-         outside emissitive is ≤ 1 

-         outside convective heat transfer coefficient ist set to reasonable value 

If the error presits, we need the complete project to give further advice. 

Marion 

2012/9/28 <trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu> 

Send TRNSYS-users mailing list submissions to
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of TRNSYS-users digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: problem with iterations?? (Matt Duffy)
   2. Re: problem with iterations?? (Marion Hiller)
   3. Re: Converging error (hotline)

---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
From: Matt Duffy <duffy at tess-inc.com>
To: <trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
Cc: 
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:04:24 -0500
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] problem with iterations?? 

Karol, 

I noticed from your listing (*.lst) file that your working directory is located on your computer's desktop directory. This is not recommended due to the potential issues with the Windows OS system and write privleges. I would first try changing your working directory to the ".\MyProjects" directory or in a folder right on the "C:" drive. I am not certain that this is the issue with the TRNEXE, but if the problem persists, please contact your distributor, techsupport at tess-inc.com. 

Best regards, 

Matt Duffy 

TRNSYS on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/TRNSYS>  

On 2012-09-27 03:46, Karol Bandurski wrote: 

Dear All, 

I try to simulate dwelling with natural ventilation. I set some algorithm for window opening and ideal heating for colder part of year for each zone with set temperature depending on time of day. 

When I run my yearly simulation it stop in one moment and TRNEXE is frozen... There is even no error! Then I can only turn off TRNEXE. 

Only think what appear (many times) in .lst file is 

Notice: More than 6 iterations for internal regulation HEATING/COOLING. 

I will be grateful for any advice! 

I enclose .lst file. 

Regards, 

------------------------------------------------ 

Karol Bandurski MSc. 

 <http://www.ee.put.poznan.pl/> Institute of Environmental Engineering 

Poznan University of Technology 

www.ee.put.poznan.pl <http://www.ee.put.poznan.pl/>  

www.put.poznan.pl <http://www.put.poznan.pl/>  

---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
From: "Marion Hiller" <hiller at transsolar.com>
To: "karol.bandurski" <karol.bandurski at put.poznan.pl>
Cc: trnsys-users <trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 08:53:53 +0200
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] problem with iterations?? 

Karol, 

In general the notice has nothing to do with a frozen TRNEXE.exe, 

it is just an information. 

The message indicates that the internal controller for turning on the 

integrated heating/cooling has convergence problems and a deadband is applied to promote convergence. 

This may be the case at the moment of turning ON or OFF something. 

After 6 internal iterations a deadband is added to promote convergence. 

If the convergence isn’t reached after 12 iterations a warning is written to the lst/log file. 

Regards, 

Marion 

Dipl.-Ing. Marion Hiller 
TRANSSOLAR: KlimaEngineering - Technologien für energieeffizientes Bauen und Nutzerkomfort in Gebäude 
Munich - New York - Stuttgart + 49.711.67976.0 

Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH, Curiestrasse 2, 70563 Stuttgart 
Amtsgericht Stuttgart - HRB 23347, Steuernummer 99073/00911, USt-IdNr.: DE152272639 

Geschäftsführer: Dipl.Ing. Matthias Schuler, Dipl.Ing. Thomas Auer, Dipl.Phys. Stefan Holst, Prof. Dipl.-Ing. Bleicher  

  _____  

Von: Karol Bandurski [mailto:karol.bandurski at put.poznan.pl] 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 27. September 2012 10:47
An: trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
Betreff: [TRNSYS-users] problem with iterations?? 

Dear All, 

I try to simulate dwelling with natural ventilation. I set some algorithm for window opening and ideal heating for colder part of year for each zone with set temperature depending on time of day. 

When I run my yearly simulation it stop in one moment and TRNEXE is frozen... There is even no error! Then I can only turn off TRNEXE. 

Only think what appear (many times) in .lst file is 

Notice: More than 6 iterations for internal regulation HEATING/COOLING. 

I will be grateful for any advice! 

I enclose .lst file. 

Regards, 

------------------------------------------------ 

Karol Bandurski MSc. 

 <http://www.ee.put.poznan.pl/> Institute of Environmental Engineering 

Poznan University of Technology 

 <http://www.ee.put.poznan.pl/> www.ee.put.poznan.pl 

www.put.poznan.pl <http://www.put.poznan.pl/>  

---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
From: "hotline" <hotline at transsolar.com>
To: trnsys-users <trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
Cc: 
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 12:02:00 +0200
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Converging error 

Wang, 

This problem may occur from incorrect ambient condition settings: 

Please check the following inputs of Type 56 

1- TAMB 

2- RELHUMAMB 

3- TSKY 

4- TSGRD 

In addition make sure that in the BUI file the surface 

-         outside emissitive is ≤ 1 

-         outside convective heat transfer coefficient ist set to reasonable value 

If the error presits, we need the complete project to give further advice. 

Marion 

  _____  

Von: 王洋 [mailto:wanghongyang1767 at gmail.com] 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 27. September 2012 11:49
An: trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
Betreff: [TRNSYS-users] Converging error 

Dear all,

I met a converging error when I changed simulation time step 1 hour into 0.1 hour or 0.2 hour or 0.01 hour as follows:

*** Fatal Error at time   :      3972.000000
    Generated by Unit     :    56
    Generated by Type     :    56
    Message               : outside temperature of    2(external) wall in zone   1at time  3972.00 not converged!

Please tell me some possible solutions for that if you know. The attached is its Listing File.

Many thanks in advance!
Br.

wang 

2012/9/27 <trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu> 

Send TRNSYS-users mailing list submissions to
        trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu

You can reach the person managing the list at
        trnsys-users-owner at cae.wisc.edu

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of TRNSYS-users digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1. Doctoral Fellowships at TERI University, India (R.K. Singh)
   2. problem with iterations?? (Karol Bandurski)

---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
From: "R.K. Singh" <singh.ramkishore at gmail.com>
To: TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu
Cc: 
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 10:04:34 +0530
Subject: [TRNSYS-users] Doctoral Fellowships at TERI University, India 

TERI University is currently inviting applications for Doctoral programmes in  Bioresources/Biotechnology;Natural Resource Management, Energy and Environment and Regulatory and Policy studies for semester starting january 2013. A range of scholarship opportunities  are also available  for the students in specific areas, the details of which can be accessed through  the following link. 

http://teriuniversity.ac.in/index.php?option=com_content <http://teriuniversity.ac.in/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54> &view=article&id=54 

The last date for application is October  31st, 2012. The details regarding fee, eligibility and other requirements can be accessed through http://teriuniversity.ac.in/index.php?option=com_program 

For any further details please get in touch with Dr. Sapna A Narula, Associate Professor sapna.narula at teriuniversity.ac.in.  

***********************************************
Dr. Ramkishore Singh
Department of Energy & Environment
TERI University
Tel: 91-11-26122222, Ext. 1302
Fax: 91-11-26122874
Web: www.teriuniversity.ac.in <http://www.teriuniversity.ac.in/> 
***********************************************

---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
From: "Karol Bandurski" <karol.bandurski at put.poznan.pl>
To: <trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
Cc: 
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 10:46:49 +0200
Subject: [TRNSYS-users] problem with iterations?? 

Dear All, 

I try to simulate dwelling with natural ventilation. I set some algorithm for window opening and ideal heating for colder part of year for each zone with set temperature depending on time of day. 

When I run my yearly simulation it stop in one moment and TRNEXE is frozen... There is even no error! Then I can only turn off TRNEXE. 

Only think what appear (many times) in .lst file is 

Notice: More than 6 iterations for internal regulation HEATING/COOLING. 

I will be grateful for any advice! 

I enclose .lst file. 

Regards, 

------------------------------------------------ 

Karol Bandurski MSc. 

 <http://www.ee.put.poznan.pl/> Institute of Environmental Engineering 

Poznan University of Technology 

 <http://www.ee.put.poznan.pl/> www.ee.put.poznan.pl 

www.put.poznan.pl <http://www.put.poznan.pl/>  

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_______________________________________________
TRNSYS-users mailing list
TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu
https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users 

_______________________________________________
TRNSYS-users mailing list
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-- 
-- 

Kind Regards,

Waseem Shah Khan

Energy Analyst
New Delhi 110025,India

Mob:+91.9999535880 

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