[TRNSYS-users] Negative value of Radiation in TRNSYS 16
王洋
wanghongyang1767 at gmail.com
Fri Oct 26 03:31:49 PDT 2012
dear all,
I would like to ask you a question about solar radiation. I met an error as
follows. I used Type 9e to import our own solar radiation data whose unit
is W/m2, meantime, I also used an Equation to transfer its unit to kJ/hm2
(i.e. xx*3.6) and used ABS to ensure its value as Positive. But it still
appears the error as follows. Please tell me how could I solve this
problem? E.g. use which Type I should use more easily and what are the
detailed processes to import our own solar radiation to connect with Type
56?
*** Fatal Error at time : 3820.800000
Generated by Unit : 56
Generated by Type : 56
Message : Negative value of solar radiation for
5orientation encountered
Many thanks in advance!
Br.
wang
2012/10/26 <trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu>
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Max. time points of Type 14 in TRNSYS 16 (??)
>
>
> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
> From: 王洋 <wanghongyang1767 at gmail.com>
> To: trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
> Cc:
> Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 11:27:38 +0200
> Subject: [TRNSYS-users] Max. time points of Type 14 in TRNSYS 16
> Dear all,
>
> I'd like to ask you whether or not max. time points of Type 14 is only 20
> in TRNSYS 16?
> If I need more than 20 points, how could I solve this problem?
>
> Many thanks in advance!
>
> Br
>
> wang
>
> 2012/10/26 <trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu>
>
>> Send TRNSYS-users mailing list submissions to
>> trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu
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>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of TRNSYS-users digest..."
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Type energy balance (David BRADLEY)
>> 2. Re: Type energy balance (Micha?l Kummert)
>>
>>
>> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>> From: David BRADLEY <d.bradley at tess-inc.com>
>> To: PARTENAY Vincent <vincent.partenay at cstb.fr>
>> Cc: "trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu" <trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
>> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 16:34:28 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Type energy balance
>> Vincent,
>> When you perform an energy balance on a tank, you need to take into
>> account its change in temperature between the beginning and the end of the
>> simulation (output 7 of your Type4). If the tank ends up hotter at the end
>> of the simulation than it was at the beginning, it has stored some energy.
>> If it ends up colder, then it has given up some energy. I would imagine
>> that with 10 nodes, there is some stratification developing in the tank
>> that is not modeled when you have a fully mixed tank (1 node)
>> Best,
>> David
>>
>>
>> On 10/25/2012 09:40, PARTENAY Vincent wrote:
>>
>> Dear all,****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Typ4a (Storage tank) allows to model a stratified tank with several
>> temperature nodes. The problem I noticed is that the energy balance of both
>> sides on the tank can vary depending on the chosen timestep :****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> In the attached file, a simplified example, the tank is coupled to an
>> energy production and energy consumption model (very simple in an
>> equation). Thermal losses of the tank is set to zero.****
>>
>> When I run a simulation with one node (1m height for 0.5m3) for the tank
>> and a timestep of 0.1hr, I get the same energy on both side (see plotter
>> “”Power&NRJ”, Esource = 2659kWh and Eload = 2666kWh), slight difference
>> maybe explained by initial charging period to setpoint temperature.****
>>
>> When I run it in the same conditions but with 10 nodes (each 0.1m), these
>> two energy are different ! While I still have 2666kWh for Eload I have
>> 3146kWh !****
>>
>> When I run it again reducing the timestep from 0.1hr to 0.001 hr, still
>> with 10 nodes, I get 2666kWh, the energy balance is ok…****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> So, my question is : is it necessary to check before every bigger
>> simulation (that can include lots of tank models) the energy balance of
>> this model for one defined timestep and boundary conditions to the model or
>> is there some rules to predefine adapted discretisation for one given
>> timestep ?****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Kind regards,****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *Vincent PARTENAY*
>>
>> Energies Renouvelables - Département ESE****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> *Centre Scientifique et Technique du Bâtiment*
>>
>> 290 Route des Lucioles BP 209 – F 06904 Sophia Antipolis Cedex****
>>
>> Tél : +33-(0)4-93-95-67-21****
>>
>> Fax : +33-(0)4-93-95-64-31****
>>
>> *Évitez d’imprimer vos emails inutilement. Respectez l’environnement*****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TRNSYS-users mailing listTRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.eduhttps://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>>
>>
>> --
>> ***************************
>> David BRADLEY
>> Principal
>> Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
>> 22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
>> Madison, WI 53703 USA
>>
>> P:+1.608.274.2577
>> F:+1.608.278.1475d.bradley at tess-inc.com
>> http://www.tess-inc.comhttp://www.trnsys.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>> From: "Michaël Kummert" <michael.kummert at gmail.com>
>> To: <trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
>> Cc:
>> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 18:19:39 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Type energy balance
>>
>> If the energy (de)stored between the initial and final state cannot
>> explain the differences, I think there is another possible cause: Type 4
>> can have quite large energy balance errors when the nodes are “flushed out”
>> during one time step. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Here is my understanding: ****
>>
>> If you have 10 nodes and a total volume of 500 L, that means each node
>> holds 50 L of water. Using 0.1 h time steps you cannot have a flowrate
>> through the tank higher than 500 L/h, otherwise you will replace the entire
>> volume of a node within a time step, and the equations used by Type 4 are
>> not valid anymore. This would explain that it works again when you reduce
>> the timestep (with 0.001 h you would need a flowrate of 50000 L/h to
>> “flush” a node out).****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> To my knowledge this problem is specific to Type 4, i.e. it does not
>> affect the Storage tanks in the TESS libraries (Type 534 etc.) – if you
>> have access to them that may be a more practical solution than running
>> 0.001 h timesteps…****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Michaël Kummert****
>>
>> Polytechnique Montréal****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* trnsys-users-bounces at cae.wisc.edu [mailto:
>> trnsys-users-bounces at cae.wisc.edu] *On Behalf Of *David BRADLEY
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 25, 2012 17:34
>> *To:* PARTENAY Vincent
>> *Cc:* trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
>> *Subject:* Re: [TRNSYS-users] Type energy balance****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Vincent,
>> When you perform an energy balance on a tank, you need to take into
>> account its change in temperature between the beginning and the end of the
>> simulation (output 7 of your Type4). If the tank ends up hotter at the end
>> of the simulation than it was at the beginning, it has stored some energy.
>> If it ends up colder, then it has given up some energy. I would imagine
>> that with 10 nodes, there is some stratification developing in the tank
>> that is not modeled when you have a fully mixed tank (1 node)
>> Best,
>> David
>>
>> ****
>>
>> On 10/25/2012 09:40, PARTENAY Vincent wrote:****
>>
>> Dear all,****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> Typ4a (Storage tank) allows to model a stratified tank with several
>> temperature nodes. The problem I noticed is that the energy balance of both
>> sides on the tank can vary depending on the chosen timestep :****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> In the attached file, a simplified example, the tank is coupled to an
>> energy production and energy consumption model (very simple in an
>> equation). Thermal losses of the tank is set to zero.****
>>
>> When I run a simulation with one node (1m height for 0.5m3) for the tank
>> and a timestep of 0.1hr, I get the same energy on both side (see plotter
>> “”Power&NRJ”, Esource = 2659kWh and Eload = 2666kWh), slight difference
>> maybe explained by initial charging period to setpoint temperature.****
>>
>> When I run it in the same conditions but with 10 nodes (each 0.1m), these
>> two energy are different ! While I still have 2666kWh for Eload I have
>> 3146kWh !****
>>
>> When I run it again reducing the timestep from 0.1hr to 0.001 hr, still
>> with 10 nodes, I get 2666kWh, the energy balance is ok…****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> So, my question is : is it necessary to check before every bigger
>> simulation (that can include lots of tank models) the energy balance of
>> this model for one defined timestep and boundary conditions to the model or
>> is there some rules to predefine adapted discretisation for one given
>> timestep ?****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> Kind regards,****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> *Vincent PARTENAY*****
>>
>> Energies Renouvelables - Département ESE****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> *Centre Scientifique et Technique du Bâtiment*****
>>
>> 290 Route des Lucioles BP 209 – F 06904 Sophia Antipolis Cedex****
>>
>> Tél : +33-(0)4-93-95-67-21****
>>
>> Fax : +33-(0)4-93-95-64-31****
>>
>> *Évitez d’imprimer vos emails inutilement. Respectez l’environnement*****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> ****
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ****
>>
>> _______________________________________________****
>>
>> TRNSYS-users mailing list****
>>
>> TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu****
>>
>> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users****
>>
>>
>>
>> ****
>>
>> -- ****
>>
>> *******************************
>>
>> David BRADLEY****
>>
>> Principal****
>>
>> Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC****
>>
>> 22 North Carroll Street - suite 370****
>>
>> Madison, WI 53703 USA****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> P:+1.608.274.2577****
>>
>> F:+1.608.278.1475****
>>
>> d.bradley at tess-inc.com****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> http://www.tess-inc.com****
>>
>> http://www.trnsys.com****
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TRNSYS-users mailing list
>> TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu
>> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>>
>>
>
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