[TRNSYS-users] Type energy balance

Thu Oct 25 15:19:39 PDT 2012

If the energy (de)stored between the initial and final state cannot explain
the differences, I think there is another possible cause: Type 4 can have
quite large energy balance errors when the nodes are “flushed out” during
one time step. 

Here is my understanding: 

If you have 10 nodes and a total volume of 500 L, that means each node holds
50 L of water. Using 0.1 h time steps you cannot have a flowrate through the
tank higher than 500 L/h, otherwise you will replace the entire volume of a
node within a time step, and the equations used by Type 4 are not valid
anymore. This would explain that it works again when you reduce the timestep
(with 0.001 h you would need a flowrate of 50000 L/h to “flush” a node out).

To my knowledge this problem is specific to Type 4, i.e. it does not affect
the Storage tanks in the TESS libraries (Type 534 etc.) – if you have access
to them that may be a more practical solution than running 0.001 h
timesteps

Michaël Kummert

Polytechnique Montréal

From: trnsys-users-bounces at cae.wisc.edu
[mailto:trnsys-users-bounces at cae.wisc.edu] On Behalf Of David BRADLEY
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 17:34
To: PARTENAY Vincent
Cc: trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Type energy balance

Vincent,
  When you perform an energy balance on a tank, you need to take into
account its change in temperature between the beginning and the end of the
simulation (output 7 of your Type4). If the tank ends up hotter at the end
of the simulation than it was at the beginning, it has stored some energy.
If it ends up colder, then it has given up some energy. I would imagine that
with 10 nodes, there is some stratification developing in the tank that is
not modeled when you have a fully mixed tank (1 node)
Best,
 David

On 10/25/2012 09:40, PARTENAY Vincent wrote:

Dear all,

Typ4a (Storage tank) allows to model a stratified tank with several
temperature nodes. The problem I noticed is that the energy balance of both
sides on the tank can vary depending on the chosen timestep :

In the attached file, a simplified example, the tank is coupled to an energy
production and energy consumption model (very simple in an equation).
Thermal losses of the tank is set to zero.

When I run a simulation with one node (1m height for 0.5m3) for the tank and
a timestep of 0.1hr, I get the same energy on both side (see plotter
“”Power&NRJ”, Esource = 2659kWh and Eload = 2666kWh), slight difference
maybe explained by initial charging period to setpoint temperature.

When I run it in the same conditions but with 10 nodes (each 0.1m), these
two energy are different ! While I still have 2666kWh for Eload I have
3146kWh !

When I run it again reducing the timestep from 0.1hr to 0.001 hr, still with
10 nodes, I get 2666kWh, the energy balance is ok

So, my question is : is it necessary to check before every bigger simulation
(that can include lots of tank models) the energy balance of this model for
one defined timestep and boundary conditions to the model or is there some
rules to predefine adapted discretisation for one given timestep ?

Kind regards,

Vincent PARTENAY

Energies Renouvelables - Département ESE

Centre Scientifique et Technique du Bâtiment

290 Route des Lucioles BP 209 – F 06904 Sophia Antipolis Cedex

Tél : +33-(0)4-93-95-67-21

Fax : +33-(0)4-93-95-64-31

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