[TRNSYS-users] TRNSYS-users Digest, Vol 96, Issue 29

Sun Dec 23 03:47:17 PST 2012

Hey David, i saw that there is a Type 177 that was used by IEA - SHC task
25. This model is freely available at www.eta.tu-berlin.de, however the
author at this site doesn't give the source code of the model. I realized
that one of the four options under this type was specifically developed for
Yazaki model WFC 10, the exact chiller model i am simulating. He suggests
that we can get the source code from from www.iea-shc-task25.com, but i
checked this source and it so happened that source code link is nolonger
available since 2009. Could you be having an idea of how i can get this
source code??? thanks

Best regards
Martin

On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 8:34 PM, <trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Re: Yazaki chiller unit model (David BRADLEY)
>    2. Re: Defining transparent wall (David BRADLEY)
>    3. Re: building simulation (David BRADLEY)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: David BRADLEY <d.bradley at tess-inc.com>
> To: Martin Ssembatya <mssembatya at gmail.com>
> Cc: trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 11:05:01 -0600
> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Yazaki chiller unit model
>  Martin,
>   I would recommend that you make a very simple project where the chiller
> is subject to a known constant load with known constant outdoor conditions.
> Hook up a Type65 online plotter to the chiller and take a look at its
> performance under these known conditions; once the model looks up the
> performance data in the data file, its computations are really quite
> simplistic. You can verify them by hand using the documentation in the
> 04-Mathematical Reference. This will give you some confidence in your model.
>
>   One of the issues that often occurs in modeling absorption chillers is
> that if you compute a building load and pass it directly to the chiller
> then the chiller spends a lot of its time running at a very very low part
> load. In reality, a chiller can't operate much below 20% capacity so you
> have to make sure that this is reflected in the data file. The data file
> should have near zero capacity and near zero fraction of design energy
> input below about 20% PLR (part load ratio). At one time, I think there was
> an error in the Type107 example data file that showed too large a capacity
> at very low PLR. The more correct way to model the system would be to place
> the chiller on its own primary loop and to place the load on a secondary
> loop. The loops can be separated by a thermal storage tank whose volume is
> equal to the volume of the primary and secondary loops. The chiller
> operates to keep the primary loop cold and the secondary loop draws off
> only as much as it needs to meet the load.
> Kind regards,
>  David
>
>
>
> On 12/19/2012 01:51, Martin Ssembatya wrote:
>
>  Hello there,
>
> I have been modelling a solar ooling system that uses one of the YAazaki
> chiller models. I used type 107 for the modelling of the absorption chiller
> partly because i did not have satisfactory chiller performance data from
> the manufacturer to model the chiller unit, but alos because i did not have
> enough time and compiling language to create my own model for this chiller.
> *But on using type 107 for this purpose, i am not getting satifactory
> results from my simulation i.e. the chilling energy is always too low
> compared to the rated capacity of the chiller regardless of the season of
> the year, including summer periods with high insolation values. Is there
> any one who could have created a TRNSYS model for any Yazaki absorption
> chiller unit? If yes, can you kindly help me with that model you created
> and to use it in my simulation and see its effect on results. I will be
> very grateful. *
> **
> Best regards
> Martin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TRNSYS-users mailing listTRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.eduhttps://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>
>
> --
> ***************************
> David BRADLEY
> Principal
> Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
> 22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
> Madison, WI  53703 USA
>
> P:+1.608.274.2577
> F:+1.608.278.1475d.bradley at tess-inc.com
> http://www.tess-inc.comhttp://www.trnsys.com
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: David BRADLEY <d.bradley at tess-inc.com>
> To: Martin Ssembatya <mssembatya at gmail.com>
> Cc: trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 11:14:23 -0600
> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Defining transparent wall
>  Martin,
>   A few years back, I was faced with modeling some greenhouses that were
> covered by a plastic film. I ended up modeling them as a window in Type56
> and worked a lot in LBNL's WINDOW5 software to create a glazing system that
> represented the plastic film. The process was no different from creating
> any other new window for TRNBuild/Type56. I wasn't entirely happy with the
> solution in part because of the diffusion of the incoming solar caused by
> the plastic. However, it was the best I could do at the time and the
> results were  defensible. At the time, I also looked for (and found) some
> models of actual greenhouses that people had developed. None of them suited
> the project very well but that might be a good avenue to pursue as well.
> Kind regards,
>  David
>
>
> On 12/12/2012 02:26, Martin Ssembatya wrote:
>
> Hello there,
>
> I am using TRNSYS 16 to estimate the total cooling requirement of three
> temporally built structures. One of the structures is a tent whose vertical
> walls contain like 50 percent plastic transparent parts. How can i create a
> layer and define it to be transparent to the incoming radiation?? I know
> that this must be having a huge effect on the total cooling requirement.
> Can someone please help me with some ideas how this can be done?!
>
> Thanks
> Martin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TRNSYS-users mailing listTRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.eduhttps://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>
>
> --
> ***************************
> David BRADLEY
> Principal
> Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
> 22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
> Madison, WI  53703 USA
>
> P:+1.608.274.2577
> F:+1.608.278.1475d.bradley at tess-inc.com
> http://www.tess-inc.comhttp://www.trnsys.com
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: David BRADLEY <d.bradley at tess-inc.com>
> To: Matthias Maier <matthiasmaier90 at googlemail.com>
> Cc: trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 11:34:53 -0600
> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] building simulation
>  Matthias,
>   I think the answer would depend a lot on the complexity of the HVAC
> systems and on the level of detail to which you would need to model them.
> The most comprehensive building models that I have done are for LEED
> projects (proposed building, proposed mechanical system, baseline
> (comparison) building, baseline (comparison) HVAC system, and lots of
> report writing). These projects can range from 70 to 200 hours of time with
> most coming in around 100 to 150. Again, though, that is modeling two
> buildings. To model just the one proposed building, I think you would
> probably be in the range of 50 to 150 hours.
>
>   Some other thoughts for you, though (which I realize you didn't
> request... ;-)   ). Every model, every building simulation tool that is out
> there is some simplification of a real process. The more assumptions the
> model developer builds into the model, the simpler the model is to
> implement but the less flexible it becomes. The fewer assumptions that the
> developer builds in, the more flexible the tool but the more complexity
> there is involved with implementing a system model. I have found it helpful
> to think of building energy modeling tools on a sliding scale where on one
> end are tools that are relatively quick to use, which have a LOT of
> built-in assumptions and which are therefore not very flexible. One the
> other end are tools that are very flexible in terms of what you can model
> but which are more time consuming to use. TRNSYS is definitely on the
> "flexible but complex" end of that scale - intentionally so. If you are
> trying to model a building that has some unusual features (radiant floors,
> natural ventilation, double skin facades, complex HVAC systems, etc.) in it
> then TRNSYS is a good tool to use, even though it will require more hours
> to implement the model. If the building has nothing but conventional
> envelope and systems then there is no advantage to TRNSYS (or other tools
> like it); you will spend an unnecessarily long time implementing the model.
> On the other hand, it may be quick to implement a model in another software
> but if the building has features that cannot be modeled by the other
> software, you need to change to another, more comprehensive or flexible
> tool.
>
> Best,
>  David
>
>
>
>
> On 12/12/2012 09:30, Matthias Maier wrote:
>
> Hi TRNSYS-users,
>
> I am studying electrical engineering at the Technical University of Munich
> and currently I am writing my bachelor´s thesis at the Institute for Energy
> Economy and Application Technology. My subject is the comparison and
> assessment of various building simulation programs. Background of this
> thesis is the development of an automatized demand side management for
> commercial buildings, in case of the emergence of a dynamic electricity
> tariff in Germany. Therefor a whole thermal simulation of the building and
> it´s HVAC systems would be necessary.
>
> One of my tasks is to estimate the costs for the implementation of a
> building including its HVAC systems. For this reason I selected an example
> building to estimate the costs for (added in the attachment). Support
> referred me to this user service. I would be very grateful if anyone could
> tell me how long it takes to implement this example building including its
> HVAC to TRNSYS and perform a high-resolution simulation (minute-basis) for
> a eperienced user.
>
>  Thank you for your attention.
>
>  Regards,
> Matthias Maier
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TRNSYS-users mailing listTRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.eduhttps://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>
>
> --
> ***************************
> David BRADLEY
> Principal
> Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
> 22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
> Madison, WI  53703 USA
>
> P:+1.608.274.2577
> F:+1.608.278.1475d.bradley at tess-inc.com
> http://www.tess-inc.comhttp://www.trnsys.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TRNSYS-users mailing list
> TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu
> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>
>
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