[TRNSYS-users] Wall heat transfer model in TRNSYS

Mon Mar 7 08:46:53 PST 2011

Dear all,

   I have some questions about Wall heat transfer model in TRNSYS:

1. I only find some equations about wall in Manual( such as Radaitive heat
flows to the wall, external walls), but I only can understand a little.
Please tell me some reference books about  Wall heat transfer model in
TRNSYS. Because I simulated an actual test room: the indoor and outdoor
temperature keep the same 20°C and 10°C, respectively, during one day 24
hours. As this situation, QHEAT muss be equal to Q heat loss by walls based
on energy balance. But the result of QHEAT in TRNSYS is 6632 kJ, but based
on heat transfer equations I got the heat loss energy is 24307 kJ. So I want
to know the Wall heat transfer model in TRNSYS.

2. To Wall heat transfer model in TRNSYS: Whether it will consider Solar
absorptance and Longwave Emission or not? But I didn't define these things.
But from NTYPE 906 Energy Balance for surfaces:
1_B6_BAL  = -   1_B6_DQWALLdt-   1_B6_QCOMI+   1_B6_QCOMO+   1_B6_QRADGI+
1_B6_QRADGO-    1_B6_QALG
5.839E-14     -2.217E+03     -1.093E-01     -2.217E+03      3.725E-03
0.000E+00      0.000E+00

But We can see B6_QRADGI  still has value as 3.725E-03. I cann't understand.
Please explain possible reasons for it.

B6_DQWALLdt in Manual is change of internal energy of surface, but it's a
little abstract. Here I only used the heatings in TRNBUILD, no other
internal gains. PLEASE give me some examples about change of internal energy
of surface. Is it energy Generation of Wall etc.? Why here is minus
(-2.217E+03)? What's difference between  B6_DQWALLdt and B6_QCOMO? Why here
they are the same? Is there some reasons?

3. How to get or check the TRNSYS program's source code? And how to get the
TRNSYS program's setup files and look over the "compiled" files(fortran)
etc.? Because some simulation results I cann't understand such as the above
Wall heat transfer model in TRNSYS etc. I want to understand their model and
those simulation results and compare with the results by hand.

Many thanks!

br.

wang

2011/3/7 <trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu>

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Questions...please reply (Matt Duffy)
>   2. Re: Stratified storage Tank (Matt Duffy)
>   3. Re: Strange error (Rambod Rayegan)
>   4. Re: Strange error (Matt Duffy)
>
>
> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
> From: "Matt Duffy" <duffy at tess-inc.com>
> To: juvenciotavares at hotmail.com, trnsys-users at engr.wisc.edu
> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 09:34:17 -0600 (CST)
> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Questions...please reply
>
> Dear Juvencio,
>
> It appears that when you imported the file into TRNBuild, the application
> did not find the adjacent surface. This could be for a couple of reasons:
> the adjacency needs to be defined, or the surface in TRNSYS3D has a face
> that is reversed. Please refer to the TRNSYS3D tutorial PDF for more great
> information.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Matt Duffy
>
> *----- Original Message -----*
> *From:* "Juvêncio Correia Tavares" <juvenciotavares at hotmail.com>
> *Sent:* Fri, March 4, 2011 10:50
> *Subject:* Re: [TRNSYS-users] Questions...please reply
>
>
> I`m doing a dynamic simulation of buildings in TRNSYS, during the
> simulation gave the following error ... as you can see in the picture.
> how can I fix this error?
> < span title="Clique para obter tradu??es alternativas" class="ecxhps">And
>  also, I would like to send me a PDF about connection.
>
> I await your response.
>
> thanks.
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> TRNSYS-users mailing listTRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.eduhttps://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>
>
>
> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
> From: "Matt Duffy" <duffy at tess-inc.com>
> To: "Lei Wang" <leiwang at tees.tamus.edu>, trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 09:41:06 -0600 (CST)
> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Stratified storage Tank
>
> Dear Lei Wang,
>
> I just tried this, and it simulated without problems in version 17, but
> when I tried in version 16, I also received the error. I can only
> speculate that this is due to the changes that we implemented for
> TrnsysConstants - we increased the number of parameters.
> Another option besides updating to version 17 is to use the Type534 TESS
> Tank model as well. Please let me know if you have any more questions
> about this.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Matt Duffy
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lei Wang" <leiwang at tees.tamus.edu>
> Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 16:17
> Subject:[TRNSYS-users] Stratified storage Tank
>
>
> Hi, All
>
> I try to use the Type4a(stratified storage tank) to modeling the ChW
> thermal storage
> tank, which volume was 1 million gal and height was 100 feet.
>
>
> The description of the type is as following
> "The thermal performance of a fluid-filled sensible energy storage tank,
> subject to
> thermal stratification, can be modeled by assuming that the tank consists
> of N (N <=
> 100) fully-mixed equal volume segments"
>
> So I think the maximum nodes number can be 100.
>
> But when I input the number of nodes were 100, the TrnExe shows that there
> was a
> range check error. When I check the list file, there didn't show any error
> Information.
>
> When I input the number of nodes were 80, it works fine.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Lei
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TRNSYS-users mailing list
> TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu
> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>
>
> ----- End of original message -----
>
>
>
>
> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
> From: Rambod Rayegan <rraye001 at fiu.edu>
> To: hotline <hotline at transsolar.com>
> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 10:49:42 -0500
> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Strange error
> Christian,
>
> Even when I change back the roof property to the previous one, the error
> exists. It seems, right now, it is independent of the roof property. This is
> the reason that I called it strange error.
>
> Rambod Rayegan
> Ph.D Candidate
> Mechanical Engineering Department
> Florida International University
> 10555 W Flagler St, EC3620
> Miami, FL, 33174
>
> 305-348-3558 (Office)
> 786-218-7375(Cell)
> 305-348-1932 (Fax)
>  On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 7:33 AM, hotline <hotline at transsolar.com> wrote:
>
>>  Hi,
>>
>> seems like you hit a limit for the generation of the transfer function
>> coefficients.
>> Please check if the roof is defined correctly.
>>
>> Regards
>> Christian
>>
>>
>> TRANSSOLAR Software Team
>>
>> hotline at transsolar.com
>>
>>
>>
>> www.trnsys.de
>>
>> Transsolar KlimaEngineering - Technologien für energieeffizientes Bauen
>> und Nutzerkomfort in Gebäuden
>>
>> Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH, Curiestrasse 2, 70563 Stuttgart /
>> Amtsgericht Stuttgart - HRB 23347 / UsSt.-Id: DE152272639
>>
>> Geschäftsführer: Dipl.Ing. Matthias Schuler, Dipl.Ing. Thomas Auer,
>> Dipl.Phys. Stefan Holst, Prof. Volkmar Bleicher
>>
>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>>    *Von:* Rambod Rayegan [mailto:rraye001 at fiu.edu]
>> *Gesendet:* Samstag, 5. März 2011 06:08
>> *An:* trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
>> *Betreff:* [TRNSYS-users] Strange error
>>
>>    Dear TRNSYS users:
>>
>> I am working on a model created buy TRNSYS 3d plugin in google sketchup
>> for couple of months. Everyday I add  something to it or modify some
>> parameters in it. Today, I have just changed the roof type in the building
>> type 56 and tried to run it again but I have received the following error:
>>
>>
>> Visual Fortran run-time error
>>
>> fortrtl:severe(64):input conversion error, unit 56, file
>> C:\.....building.trn
>> Image PC Routine Source DFORRT.DLL  02014C49 Unknown  Unknown Unknown
>>
>>
>> Anybody has an idea to solve the issue?
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Rambod Rayegan
>> Ph.D Candidate
>> Mechanical Engineering Department
>> Florida International University
>> 10555 W Flagler St, EC3620
>> Miami, FL, 33174
>>
>> 305-348-3558 (Office)
>> 786-218-7375(Cell)
>> 305-348-1932 (Fax)
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
> From: "Matt Duffy" <duffy at tess-inc.com>
> To: "Rambod Rayegan" <rraye001 at fiu.edu>, hotline at transsolar.com
> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 09:57:02 -0600 (CST)
> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Strange error
> Dear Rambod,
>
> If you send me the IDF file, I might be able to shed some light on the
> error.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Matt Duffy
>
>
> *----- Original Message -----*
> *From:* "Rambod Rayegan" <rraye001 at fiu.edu>
> *Sent:* Mon, March 7, 2011 9:49
> *Subject:* Re: [TRNSYS-users] Strange error
>
>  Christian,
>
> Even when I change back the roof property to the previous one, the error
> exists. It seems, right now, it is independent of the roof property. This is
> the reason that I called it strange error.
>
> Rambod Rayegan
> Ph.D Candidate
> Mechanical Engineering Department
> Florida International University
> 10555 W Flagler St, EC3620
> Miami, FL, 33174
>
> 305-348-3558 (Office)
> 786-218-7375(Cell)
> 305-348-1932 (Fax)
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 7:33 AM, hotline <hotline at transsolar.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> seems like you hit a limit for the generation of the transfer function
>> coefficients.
>> Please check if the roof is defined correctly.
>>
>> Regards
>> Christian
>>
>>
>> TRANSSOLAR Software Team
>>
>> hotline at transsolar.com
>>
>>
>>
>> www.trnsys.de
>>
>> Transsolar KlimaEngineering - Technologien für energieeffizientes Bauen
>> und Nutzerkomfort in Gebäuden   &n! bsp;
>>
>> Transsolar Energietechnik GmbH, Curiestrasse 2, 70563 Stuttgart /
>> Amtsgericht Stuttgart - HRB 23347 / UsSt.-Id: DE152272639
>>
>> Geschäftsführer: Dipl.Ing. Matthias Schuler, Dipl.Ing. Thomas Auer,
>> Dipl.Phys. Stefan Holst, Prof. Volkmar Bleicher
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>    *Von:* Rambod Rayegan [mailto:rraye001 at fiu.edu]
>> *Gesendet:* Samstag, 5. M&auml! ;rz 2011 06:08
>> *An:* trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
>> *Betreff:* [TRNSYS-users] Strange error
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear TRNSYS users:
>>
>> I am working on a model created buy TRNSYS 3d plugin in google sketchup
>> for couple of months. Everyday I add  something to it or modify some
>> parameters in it. Today, I have just changed the roof type in the building
>> type 56 and tried to run it again but I have received the following error:
>>
>>
>> Visual Fortran run-time error
>>
>> fortrtl:severe(64):input conversion error, unit 56, file
>> C:\.....building.trn
>> Image PC Routine Source DFORRT.DLL  02014C49 Unknown  Unknown Unknown
>>
>>
>> Anybody has an idea to solve the issu! e?
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Rambod Rayegan
>> Ph.D Candidate
>> Mechanical Engineering Department
>> Florida International University
>> 10555 W Flagler St, EC3620
>> Miami, FL, 33174
>>
>> 305-348-3558 (Office)
>> 786-218-7375(Cell)
>> 305-348-1932 (Fax)
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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