[TRNSYS-users] ideal heating position in TRNBUILD
王洋
wanghongyang1767 at gmail.com
Thu Feb 24 07:37:41 PST 2011
Dear Mr. Kersken,
Do you mean I need use TRNSYS-3D to define?
If not using TRNSYS-3D, I cann't define its position?
My question is if not using 3D, To ideal heating in TRNBUILD: Where is
this heating? If it has no position, then How is the ideal heating operating
or working? How to observe its operating or working way etc.?
Because although I used TRNSYS 17, but I never used TRNSYS 3D, i'm not
familiar with it.
Thanks!
br
wang
2011/2/24 Kersken, Matthias <Matthias.Kersken at ibp.fraunhofer.de>
> Dear Wang!
>
> This is only possible if You use TRNSYS 17.
> You can not use the ideal heating directly.
>
> - Define a GeoPosition Geometry using the xyz-Cube Icon.
> - Define a "other Gain" with the correct radiative ratio and it's power
> as input
> - Calculate the power of the gain using an iterative feedback
> controller (Type22) in the SimulationStudio;
> Inputs are the desired and the actual zone temperature and the output
> is the required heating power connected to the gain-input of Type56.
>
> That should do the job of "simulating" an ideal heating at a specific
> position.
>
> With kind regards,
> Matthias Kersken
>
>
> ---
>
>
>
> *Dipl.-Ing. Matthias Kersken
> *Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter / Abteilung Energiesysteme
>
> Fraunhofer-Institut für Bauphysik
> Institutsteil Holzkirchen
>
> Fraunhoferstraße 10
> 83626 Valley
>
> eMail: Matthias.Kersken at ibp.fraunhofer.de
> Telefon 08024 / 643-204
> Telefax 08024 / 643-366
> www.ibp.fraunhofer.de
>
> *Dipl.-Ing. Matthias Kersken
> *Research Associate / Department Energy Systems
>
> Fraunhofer Institute for Building Physics
> Branch Holzkirchen
>
> Fraunhoferstraße 10
> D-83626 Valley
>
> eMail: Matthias.Kersken at ibp.fraunhofer.de
> Phone +49 8024 / 643-204
> Fax +49 8024 / 643-366
> www.ibp.fraunhofer.de
>
>
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>
> ---
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *Von:* 王洋 [mailto:wanghongyang1767 at gmail.com]
> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 24. Februar 2011 15:48
> *An:* trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
> *Betreff:* [TRNSYS-users] ideal heating position in TRNBUILD
>
> Dear all,
>
>
> To ideal heating in TRNBUILD: Where is this heating? Can I define its
> position? If so, how to define its position? How is the ideal
> heating operating or working?
>
>
> thanks !
>
> br.
>
> wy
>
> 在 2011年2月24日 下午3:24， <trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu>写道：
>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Problems with calling EES (Type66a) (Doms Joris)
>> 2. Re: RADIATIVE PART of Heating (??)
>>
>>
>> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>> From: Doms Joris <joris.doms at vito.be>
>> To: David BRADLEY <d.bradley at tess-inc.com>
>> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:17:49 +0100
>> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Problems with calling EES (Type66a)
>> David,
>>
>> Thank you for the reply. The EES project was defenately openening and
>> closing, but EES itself stayed open. I fixed this problem now with changing
>> the pad for the EES project from
>> "c:\xxx\xxx\hydraulics\EES.ees" to "\hydrolics\EES.ees".
>>
>> But now it seems that EES-TRNSYS coupling has a limited number of outputs,
>> is this correct? When I run a long simulation with alot of timesteps, the
>> simulation stops after a while, I think it is after 66000 timesteps with 20
>> inputs and 40 outputs with the EES-TRNSYS coupling. Is there a solution for
>> this?
>>
>> Using another type is no option as I need to make calcultation with EES at
>> every timestep.
>>
>> Many thanks
>>
>> Joris Doms
>> ------------------------------
>> *Van:* David BRADLEY [d.bradley at tess-inc.com]
>> *Verzonden:* dinsdag 22 februari 2011 23:40
>> *Aan:* Doms Joris
>> *CC:* trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
>> *Onderwerp:* Re: [TRNSYS-users] Problems with calling EES (Type66a)
>>
>> Joris,
>> It isn't actually the opening and closing that takes time (EES stays
>> running the whole time). The slowness is the EES calculation time and the
>> fact that EES is called at every single timestep and at every single
>> iteration within a timestep of your TRNSYS simulation. There are a few
>> different versions of Type66 that allow you to avoid calling EES whenever
>> possible (basically an input that is an on/off switch for the EES
>> calculations). If you know that your EES program doesn't have to be called
>> (because the device that it models is inactive) then you can "turn off" the
>> call to Type66 and save some time. Take a look at the EES example in the
>> ..\TrnsysXX\Examples\Calling_EES\ directory; all the different options are
>> shown in there.
>> Kind regards,
>> David
>>
>>
>> On 2/20/2011 15:43, Doms Joris wrote:
>>
>> Dear TRNSYS users,
>>
>> When simulating an applied thermal system, I'm using EES for the hydronic
>> part. I programmed the hydronic circuit in EES and coupled it with TRNSYS
>> via Type 66a. This coupling works fine, but;
>>
>> The problem is that the simulation runs very slow. Every timestep that
>> TRNSYS calls EES, the EES project is opened and closed. Is there a way to
>> set some settings so EES isen't closed and reopened each time, this would
>> minimize the solution time alot.
>>
>> Thanks on advance
>>
>> Joris Doms
>>
>> ------------------------------
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TRNSYS-users mailing listTRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.eduhttps://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>>
>>
>> --
>> ***************************
>> David BRADLEY
>> Principal
>> Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
>> 22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
>> Madison, WI 53703 USA
>>
>> P:+1.608.274.2577
>> F:+1.608.278.1475d.bradley at tess-inc.com
>> http://www.tess-inc.comhttp://www.trnsys.com
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> This e-mail, any attachments and the information it contains are
>> confidential and meant only for the use of the addressee(s) only. Access to
>> this e-mail by anyone other than the addressee(s) is unauthorized. If you
>> are not the intended addressee (or responsible for delivery of the message
>> to such person), you may not use, copy, distribute or deliver to anyone this
>> message (or any part of its contents) or take any action in reliance on it.
>> In such case, you should destroy this message and notify the sender
>> immediately. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us
>> immediately by e-mail or telephone and delete the e-mail from any computer.
>> All reasonable precautions have been taken to ensure no viruses are
>> present in this e-mail and its attachments. As our company cannot accept
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>> From: 王洋 <wanghongyang1767 at gmail.com>
>> To: duffy at tess-inc.com
>> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:24:08 +0100
>> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] RADIATIVE PART of Heating
>> Dear Mr. Duffy,
>>
>> Many thanks for your reply!
>>
>> I’m so sorry for sending multiple identical emails to the TRNSYS
>> users mailing list. Because I'm very anxious not to get those answers,
>> that's some tasks my professor gave me, I must finish them these days. So I
>> still have no other way to do with them after asking other guys, then I sent
>> multiple identical emails to the TRNSYS users mailing list.
>>
>> sorry again!
>>
>> Br.
>>
>> wang
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2011/2/23 Matt Duffy <duffy at tess-inc.com>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Wang,
>>>
>>>
>>> The following document has information about radiator/convector.
>>>
>>> ASHRAE, 2004 ASHRAE Handbook: HVAC Systems and Equipment, ASHRAE, Atlanta
>>> Perhaps a basic heat transfer text, such as Incropera and Dewitt, may
>>> have information as well.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Matt Duffy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *----- Original Message -----*
>>> *From:* "王洋" <wanghongyang1767 at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Wed, February 23, 2011 15:22
>>> *Subject:* [TRNSYS-users] RADIATIVE PART of Heating
>>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> I want to make sure the exact value about RADIATIVE PART in the TRNBUILD
>>> Heating option. e.g. What's the exact RADIATIVE PART or Convection Part
>>> value of the wall heating and radiator and convector?
>>>
>>> Or Please introduce me some TRNSYS references and literature about
>>> RADIATIVE PART or Convection Part value of the wall heating and radiator and
>>> convector etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please introduce me some best English books about the heating(radiator,
>>> convector, Wandheizung and floor heating) operating or working fundamentals
>>> etc., walls' thermal energy storage and materials' pyhsics property etc.,
>>> the infiltration and ventilation etc. and our this research topic's
>>> literatures we must read.
>>>
>>>
>>> many thanks!
>>>
>>> Br.
>>>
>>> wang
>>>
>>>
>>> 在 2011年2月23日 上午11:01，王洋 <wanghongyang1767 at gmail.com>写道：
>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>
>>>> I want to make sure the exact value about RADIATIVE PART in the TRNBUILD
>>>> Heating option. e.g. What's the exact RADIATIVE PART or Convection Part
>>>> value of the wall heating and radiator and convector?
>>>>
>>>> Or Please introduce me some TRNSYS references and literature about
>>>> RADIATIVE PART or Convection Part value of the wall heating and radiator and
>>>> convector etc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Please introduce me some best English books about the heating(radiator,
>>>> convector, Wandheizung and floor heating) operating or working fundamentals
>>>> etc., walls' thermal energy storage and materials' pyhsics property etc.,
>>>> the infiltration and ventilation etc. and our this research topic's
>>>> literatures we must read.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> many thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Br.
>>>>
>>>> wang
>>>>
>>>> 2011/2/23 <trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu>
>>>>
>>>>> Send TRNSYS-users mailing list submissions to
>>>>> trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu
>>>>>
>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>>> trnsys-users-request at cae.wisc.edu
>>>>>
>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>>> trnsys-users-owner at cae.wisc.edu
>>>>>
>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>>> than "Re: Contents of TRNSYS-users digest..."
>>>>>
>>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Re: Problems with calling EES (Type66a) (David BRADLEY)
>>>>> 2. Re: Type66 EES and TRNSYS (David BRADLEY)
>>>>> 3. Re: acceptable temperature range (Fred Betz)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>>>>> From: David BRADLEY <d.bradley at tess-inc.com>
>>>>> To: Doms Joris <joris.doms at vito.be>
>>>>> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 16:40:04 -0600
>>>>> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Problems with calling EES (Type66a)
>>>>> Joris,
>>>>> It isn't actually the opening and closing that takes time (EES stays
>>>>> running the whole time). The slowness is the EES calculation time and the
>>>>> fact that EES is called at every single timestep and at every single
>>>>> iteration within a timestep of your TRNSYS simulation. There are a few
>>>>> different versions of Type66 that allow you to avoid calling EES whenever
>>>>> possible (basically an input that is an on/off switch for the EES
>>>>> calculations). If you know that your EES program doesn't have to be called
>>>>> (because the device that it models is inactive) then you can "turn off" the
>>>>> call to Type66 and save some time. Take a look at the EES example in the
>>>>> ..\TrnsysXX\Examples\Calling_EES\ directory; all the different options are
>>>>> shown in there.
>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/20/2011 15:43, Doms Joris wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear TRNSYS users,
>>>>>
>>>>> When simulating an applied thermal system, I'm using EES for the
>>>>> hydronic part. I programmed the hydronic circuit in EES and coupled it with
>>>>> TRNSYS via Type 66a. This coupling works fine, but;
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem is that the simulation runs very slow. Every timestep that
>>>>> TRNSYS calls EES, the EES project is opened and closed. Is there a way to
>>>>> set some settings so EES isen't closed and reopened each time, this would
>>>>> minimize the solution time alot.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks on advance
>>>>>
>>>>> Joris Doms
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> This e-mail, any attachments and the information it contains are
>>>>> confidential and meant only for the use of the addressee(s) only. Access to
>>>>> this e-mail by anyone other than the addressee(s) is unauthorized. If you
>>>>> are not the intended addressee (or responsible for delivery of the message
>>>>> to such person), you may not use, copy, distribute or deliver to anyone this
>>>>> message (or any part of its contents) or take any action in reliance on it.
>>>>> In such case, you should destroy this message and notify the sender
>>>>> immediately. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us
>>>>> immediately by e-mail or telephone and delete the e-mail from any computer.
>>>>> All reasonable precautions have been taken to ensure no viruses are
>>>>> present in this e-mail and its attachments. As our company cannot accept
>>>>> responsibility for any loss or damage arising from the use of this e-mail or
>>>>> attachments we recommend that you subject these to your virus checking
>>>>> procedures prior to use.
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TRNSYS-users mailing listTRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.eduhttps://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ***************************
>>>>> David BRADLEY
>>>>> Principal
>>>>> Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
>>>>> 22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
>>>>> Madison, WI 53703 USA
>>>>>
>>>>> P:+1.608.274.2577
>>>>> F:+1.608.278.1475d.bradley at tess-inc.com
>>>>> http://www.tess-inc.comhttp://www.trnsys.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>>>>> From: David BRADLEY <d.bradley at tess-inc.com>
>>>>> To: Simon Binnemans <simon.binnemans at khk.be>
>>>>> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 16:57:40 -0600
>>>>> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Type66 EES and TRNSYS
>>>>> Simon,
>>>>> If you would be willing to send me your TRNSYS project and EES code, I
>>>>> could probably debug it and find out why changing the size of szdelivertext
>>>>> isn't solving it. It may be that there is a limitation on the EES side of
>>>>> the connection as well; please don't quote me on that though until I get to
>>>>> look at it!
>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/16/2011 04:36, Simon Binnemans wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am currently using the Type66 object for exchanging data between
>>>>>> TRNSYS and ees.
>>>>>> At first it worked very well, but when I want to receive more than 34
>>>>>> inputs from ees, TRNSYS alway generates an error: "Error converting
>>>>>> clipboard data to numbers."
>>>>>> After searching for this problem, I found that the problem was
>>>>>> situated in the Type66 component, which only reads the first 512 characters
>>>>>> from the clipboard. The suggested solution was to modify the value of
>>>>>> szdelivertext to a higher number and recompile it.(
>>>>>> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/pipermail/trnsys-users/2009/004540.html)
>>>>>> I modified the value of szdelivertext to 40 000 in stead of the
>>>>>> standard 4000, but the result stayed the same.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can anyone suggest a solution for this problem?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ***************************
>>>>> David BRADLEY
>>>>> Principal
>>>>> Thermal Energy Systems Specialists, LLC
>>>>> 22 North Carroll Street - suite 370
>>>>> Madison, WI 53703 USA
>>>>>
>>>>> P:+1.608.274.2577
>>>>> F:+1.608.278.1475
>>>>> d.bradley at tess-inc.com
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.tess-inc.com
>>>>> http://www.trnsys.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------- 已转发邮件 ----------
>>>>> From: Fred Betz <fbetz at aeieng.com>
>>>>> To: Shahrdad JavidRad <shahrdad at live.de>, TRNSYS USERS <
>>>>> trnsys-users at cae.wisc.edu>
>>>>> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 17:42:26 -0600
>>>>> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] acceptable temperature range
>>>>>
>>>>> You’ll probably be better off using a simple feedback controller rather
>>>>> than an equation block because you can get frequent starts and stops or
>>>>> non-convergence warnings.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, that’s a pretty large temperature range to operate over. Are you
>>>>> driving an absorption chiller with those temperatures?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You might be better off controlling a variable speed pump to maintain
>>>>> your temperature range rather than shutting the pump off when the
>>>>> temperature exceeds 80C. If you shut off the pump when the temperature is
>>>>> over 80C, you risk exceeding the stagnation temperature of your panels in
>>>>> the real world.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a solar thermal panel in the TESS libraries that has a built
>>>>> in controller that has an output for a variable speed pump that works really
>>>>> well.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Good luck!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Fred
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Fred Betz** *PhD., LEED AP
>>>>> Sustainable Systems Analyst
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *AEI* | AFFILIATED ENGINEERS, INC.
>>>>> 5802 Research Park Blvd. | Madison, WI 53719
>>>>>
>>>>> P: 608.236.1175 | F: 608.238.2614
>>>>> fbetz at aeieng.com | *www.aeieng.com*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Shahrdad JavidRad [mailto:shahrdad at live.de]
>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 22, 2011 12:11 PM
>>>>> *To:* TRNSYS USERS
>>>>> *Subject:* [TRNSYS-users] acceptable temperature range
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> in my solar thermal system I want to define an acceptable interval for the
>>>>> collector outlet temperature [65-80°C] by giving an output signal=1
>>>>> for the pump in the collector loop. For any other temperatures out of this
>>>>> range the signal should be=0
>>>>>
>>>>> For this purpose I am using an Equation block!! (Is there any
>>>>> controller, that is able to do it?)
>>>>>
>>>>> I have defined these variables as:
>>>>>
>>>>> T_min=65
>>>>> T_max=80
>>>>> T_out= collector outlet temperature
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Signal=AND(GT(T_out,T_min),LT(T_out,T_max))*1+(1-AND(GT(T_out,T_min),LT(T_out,T_max)))*0
>>>>>
>>>>> I have plotted the signal. It works fine but I am experiencing a very
>>>>> long simulation time. More than 15 minutes just for a week.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there any idea?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Shahrdad
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TRNSYS-users mailing list
>>>>> TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu
>>>>> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TRNSYS-users mailing listTRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.eduhttps://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TRNSYS-users mailing list
>> TRNSYS-users at cae.wisc.edu
>> https://mailman.cae.wisc.edu/listinfo/trnsys-users
>>
>>
>
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