[TRNSYS-users] type 557a

David Bradley bradley at tess-inc.com
Fri Jul 24 10:53:50 PDT 2009


Max,
  I put it on our list of things to look at; unfortunately in the short 
term, I don't think there is anything that can be done about it. You can 
use it to look at daily losses as a function of the time of year but 
looking at hourly losses seems to be something that it can't do at the 
moment.
Kind regards,
 David


Max Werlein wrote:
> Dear Matt,
>
> Thanks for the answer, do you have any solution for this problem? Our 
> problem is that we are interrested in analysing the losses for 
> specific periods of time such as comparing day and night. Is there 
> anything we can do??
> Thanks
>
> max
>
>
>
>
>
> Max,
>  I think  Type557 has a reporting problem. At my colleague Jeff's 
> suggestion, I ran your simulation out for 5 years. After about two 
> years, it reaches more or less steady state at which point I started 
> integrating the amount of energy that I was putting into the ground 
> (mCp(Tin-Tout)) and the amount of losses from the top sides and 
> bottom. The difference between the two is small and equal to the 
> storage internal energy change. I am not sure why Type557 only reports 
> the losses once every 18 hours. Jeff thinks it may have to do with the 
> frequency at which the solution for a single bore is superimposed on 
> the total bore field and then how often that solution is superimposed 
> upon the far field.
> Kind regards,
>  David
>
>
> Max Werlein wrote:
>
>     Dear all,
>
>     We just produced a small project in order to show the effect. Pay
>     attention to the plots. and the period of the appearance of the
>     losses.
>
>     Thanks to all
>
>     max
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:39:06 -0500
>     From: bradley at tess-inc.com <mailto:bradley at tess-inc.com>
>     To: maxwithhat at hotmail.com <mailto:maxwithhat at hotmail.com>
>     CC: duffy at tess-inc.com <mailto:duffy at tess-inc.com>
>     Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] type 557a
>
>     Max,
>      Could you send us the project that you are working from so that
>     we can take a look at it?
>     Thanks
>     David
>
>
>     Max Werlein wrote:
>
>         Dear Matt,
>
>         The  problem ist not tracing the inputs, outputs and
>         parameters. We have been trying to debug the component
>         and have encountered the problem explained before:
>
>         " While simulating with the type 557a (Ground Heat Exchanger
>         (TESS)) I
>         discouverd that the heat losses of the earth control volume to the
>         sides, top and bottom (Outputs: 5,6,7) are generating a peak in a
>         constant period (roughly 27 hours) while the rest of the time
>         these
>         outputs are zero. What I actually want is an output of the
>         losses in
>         every timestep. Does anyone have an idea what is actually
>         calculated by
>         these outputs? Is there an error in the code?"
>
>         The problem is that the type is quite commplicated and hence
>         we are not able to completely understand the code!
>         But the results we get seem to be wrong if ever our
>         interpretation of the results in the online plotter are correct!
>         The losses to all sides (top, bottom and side) are 0 for
>         nearly all the time, only for 1 timestep (after a period off
>         roughly 27 hours) it get a value. We have tried to understand
>         the timestep handeling in the code, which (if we understood
>         well!!) seems to convert the unit hours of the main
>         soubroutine into seconds for the other soubroutines used, and
>         we suspect that there might be a mistake somewhere in the
>         treatment of the losses with the different time units! But as
>         mentioned we are not sure and we are no experts either !
>         Maybe some of you colleages may have an idea,
>
>         Sorry for bothering !
>
>         Thanks
>
>         max
>
>
>
>
>
>         > Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:45:34 -0500
>         > Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] type 557a
>         > From: duffy at tess-inc.com <mailto:duffy at tess-inc.com>
>         > To: maxwithhat at hotmail.com <mailto:maxwithhat at hotmail.com>;
>         trnsys-users at engr.wisc.edu <mailto:trnsys-users at engr.wisc.edu>
>         >
>         > Max,
>         >
>         > To watch outputs (and inputs and parameters) for a
>         component, you can use
>         > the TRACE feature. Simply click on the component, and then
>         click on the
>         > footprints icon on the left side of the TRNSYS Simulation
>         Studio. Run the
>         > simulation. This will print the inputs, outputs, and
>         parameters of that
>         > specific component to the listing file, *.lst. However, I am
>         not too
>         > familiar with Type557
>         >
>         > Best regards,
>         >
>         > Matt Duffy
>         >
>         >
>         >
>         > ----- Original Message -----
>         > From: "Max Werlein" <maxwithhat at hotmail.com>
>         <mailto:maxwithhat at hotmail.com>
>         > Sent: Tue, July 14, 2009 12:08
>         > Subject:[TRNSYS-users] type 557a
>         >
>         >
>         > Dear Trnsys users,
>         >
>         >
>         >
>         > While simulating with the type 557a (Ground Heat Exchanger
>         (TESS)) I
>         > discouverd that the heat losses of the earth control volume
>         to the
>         > sides, top and bottom (Outputs: 5,6,7) are generating a peak
>         in a
>         > constant period (roughly 27 hours) while the rest of the
>         time these
>         > outputs are zero. What I actually want is an output of the
>         losses in
>         > every timestep. Does anyone have an idea what is actually
>         calculated by
>         > these outputs? Is there an error in the code?
>         >
>         >
>         >
>         > Thanks in advance
>         >
>         >
>         >
>         > Max
>         >
>         _________________________________________________________________
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>         >
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>         >
>         >
>         > ----- End of original message -----
>         >
>
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>     -- 
>     ***********************************************************************
>     Thermal Energy System Specialists (TESS), LLC 
>     David BRADLEY                      22 N. Carroll Street - Suite 370 
>     Partner                            Madison, WI 53703 
>                                        USA
>     P: +1.608.274.2577 
>     F: +1.608.278.1475
>     E-mail: bradley at tess-inc.com <mailto:bradley at tess-inc.com> 
>     Web Pages:  http://www.tess-inc.com    and      http://www.trnsys.com
>
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>
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>
> -- 
> ***********************************************************************
> Thermal Energy System Specialists (TESS), LLC 
> David BRADLEY                      22 N. Carroll Street - Suite 370 
> Partner                            Madison, WI 53703 
>                                    USA
> P: +1.608.274.2577 
> F: +1.608.278.1475
> E-mail: bradley at tess-inc.com <mailto:bradley at tess-inc.com> 
> Web Pages:  http://www.tess-inc.com    and      http://www.trnsys.com
>
> ***********************************************************************
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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-- 
***********************************************************************
Thermal Energy System Specialists (TESS), LLC 
David BRADLEY                      22 N. Carroll Street - Suite 370 
Partner                            Madison, WI 53703 
                                   USA
P: +1.608.274.2577 
F: +1.608.278.1475
E-mail: bradley at tess-inc.com 
Web Pages:  http://www.tess-inc.com    and      http://www.trnsys.com

***********************************************************************

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