[TRNSYS-users] type 557a

David Bradley bradley at tess-inc.com
Tue Jul 21 13:26:37 PDT 2009


Max,
 I think  Type557 has a reporting problem. At my colleague Jeff's 
suggestion, I ran your simulation out for 5 years. After about two 
years, it reaches more or less steady state at which point I started 
integrating the amount of energy that I was putting into the ground 
(mCp(Tin-Tout)) and the amount of losses from the top sides and bottom. 
The difference between the two is small and equal to the storage 
internal energy change. I am not sure why Type557 only reports the 
losses once every 18 hours. Jeff thinks it may have to do with the 
frequency at which the solution for a single bore is superimposed on the 
total bore field and then how often that solution is superimposed upon 
the far field.
Kind regards,
 David


Max Werlein wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> We just produced a small project in order to show the effect. Pay 
> attention to the plots. and the period of the appearance of the losses.
>
> Thanks to all
>
> max
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:39:06 -0500
> From: bradley at tess-inc.com
> To: maxwithhat at hotmail.com
> CC: duffy at tess-inc.com
> Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] type 557a
>
> Max,
>  Could you send us the project that you are working from so that we 
> can take a look at it?
> Thanks
> David
>
>
> Max Werlein wrote:
>
>     Dear Matt,
>
>     The  problem ist not tracing the inputs, outputs and parameters.
>     We have been trying to debug the component
>     and have encountered the problem explained before:
>
>     " While simulating with the type 557a (Ground Heat Exchanger (TESS)) I
>     discouverd that the heat losses of the earth control volume to the
>     sides, top and bottom (Outputs: 5,6,7) are generating a peak in a
>     constant period (roughly 27 hours) while the rest of the time these
>     outputs are zero. What I actually want is an output of the losses in
>     every timestep. Does anyone have an idea what is actually
>     calculated by
>     these outputs? Is there an error in the code?"
>
>     The problem is that the type is quite commplicated and hence we
>     are not able to completely understand the code!
>     But the results we get seem to be wrong if ever our interpretation
>     of the results in the online plotter are correct!
>     The losses to all sides (top, bottom and side) are 0 for nearly
>     all the time, only for 1 timestep (after a period off roughly 27
>     hours) it get a value. We have tried to understand the timestep
>     handeling in the code, which (if we understood well!!) seems to
>     convert the unit hours of the main soubroutine into seconds for
>     the other soubroutines used, and we suspect that there might be a
>     mistake somewhere in the treatment of the losses with the
>     different time units! But as mentioned we are not sure and we are
>     no experts either !
>     Maybe some of you colleages may have an idea,
>
>     Sorry for bothering !
>
>     Thanks
>
>     max
>
>
>
>
>
>     > Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:45:34 -0500
>     > Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] type 557a
>     > From: duffy at tess-inc.com <mailto:duffy at tess-inc.com>
>     > To: maxwithhat at hotmail.com <mailto:maxwithhat at hotmail.com>;
>     trnsys-users at engr.wisc.edu <mailto:trnsys-users at engr.wisc.edu>
>     >
>     > Max,
>     >
>     > To watch outputs (and inputs and parameters) for a component,
>     you can use
>     > the TRACE feature. Simply click on the component, and then click
>     on the
>     > footprints icon on the left side of the TRNSYS Simulation
>     Studio. Run the
>     > simulation. This will print the inputs, outputs, and parameters
>     of that
>     > specific component to the listing file, *.lst. However, I am not too
>     > familiar with Type557
>     >
>     > Best regards,
>     >
>     > Matt Duffy
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > ----- Original Message -----
>     > From: "Max Werlein" <maxwithhat at hotmail.com>
>     <mailto:maxwithhat at hotmail.com>
>     > Sent: Tue, July 14, 2009 12:08
>     > Subject:[TRNSYS-users] type 557a
>     >
>     >
>     > Dear Trnsys users,
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > While simulating with the type 557a (Ground Heat Exchanger (TESS)) I
>     > discouverd that the heat losses of the earth control volume to the
>     > sides, top and bottom (Outputs: 5,6,7) are generating a peak in a
>     > constant period (roughly 27 hours) while the rest of the time these
>     > outputs are zero. What I actually want is an output of the losses in
>     > every timestep. Does anyone have an idea what is actually
>     calculated by
>     > these outputs? Is there an error in the code?
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Thanks in advance
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Max
>     > _________________________________________________________________
>     > Enamórate este invierno con MSN Amor y Amistad
>     >
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>     >
>     >
>     > ----- End of original message -----
>     >
>
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> -- 
> ***********************************************************************
> Thermal Energy System Specialists (TESS), LLC 
> David BRADLEY                      22 N. Carroll Street - Suite 370 
> Partner                            Madison, WI 53703 
>                                    USA
> P: +1.608.274.2577 
> F: +1.608.278.1475
> E-mail: bradley at tess-inc.com <mailto:bradley at tess-inc.com> 
> Web Pages:  http://www.tess-inc.com    and      http://www.trnsys.com
>
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-- 
***********************************************************************
Thermal Energy System Specialists (TESS), LLC 
David BRADLEY                      22 N. Carroll Street - Suite 370 
Partner                            Madison, WI 53703 
                                   USA
P: +1.608.274.2577 
F: +1.608.278.1475
E-mail: bradley at tess-inc.com 
Web Pages:  http://www.tess-inc.com    and      http://www.trnsys.com

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