[TRNSYS-users] Exterior wall against ground

[David Bradley]

Abdullahi,
   You are correct that you should integrate with 
respect to depth and calcuate the average. There 
is no simple way to do that directly in 
Type77/501 at the moment. It is an interesting 
idea for future versions. As a simple 
alternative, you can use the Kasuda depth for the 
middle of the below grade section of the wall 
although it is not quite as correct.
Cheers,
  David


At 12:27 4/13/2007, aa1 at brighton.ac.uk wrote:
>David/Daniel,
>
>My only concern with the use of Kasuda 
>correlation (in the form used in type 77 &Type 
>501) for vertical surfaces like a basement wall, 
>is the fact that these components will only give 
>the soil temperature at a single vertical point 
>(say depth Z,Z1,Z2 
..at any given time). If 
>your wall is very deep, say 1-2m deep, what you 
>need is probably the average temperature of a 
>vertical profile ranging between depth Z1 and Z2.
>
>The way to go about this is to integrate the 
>Kasuda expression with respect to depth (Z1 to 
>Z2). My question to David is whether this is 
>achievable with Type77/501? If not perhaps 
>Daniel might want to look at the following 
>document on how to integrate the Labs/kasuda correlations.
>
>Labs, K. 1989. Earth Coupling. Passive Cooling. 
>J. Cook. Cambridge Massachusetts, The MIT Press: 197-346.
>
>Abdullahi
>
>School of the Environment
>University of Brighton
>Cockcroft Building
>Lewes Rd.
>Brighton
>BN2 4GJ
>
>Tel: +44 01273 643455
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: David Bradley [mailto:bradley at tess-inc.com]
>Sent: 13 April 2007 17:38
>To: Büchele Daniel (Helbling Beratung + 
>Bauplanung); trnsys-users at engr.wisc.edu
>Subject: Re: [TRNSYS-users] Exterior wall against ground
>
>Daniel,
>   Arie's response is quite correct. 
> Additionally, if you do not want to use the 
> annual ambient temperature as your boundary 
> wall temperature, you can use the temperature 
> of undisturbed ground as calculated by the 
> Kasuda correlation from Type77. This makes the 
> ground temperature a function of depth and time 
> of year. Like with Arie's response, it assumes 
> that the ground is an infinite source / sink 
> and that energy transferred from the building 
> through the wall to the ground does not affect 
> the ground temperature in the long term. We 
> have written a few basement models recently 
> that do account for the change in the ground 
> temperature due to energy transfer through the 
> wall but they assume four basement walls and a 
> floor. If you only have one wall below grade 
> then you might be best off using Arie's method 
> either with the annual average ground temperature or with Type77.
>Cheers,
>  David
>
>
>At 12:48 4/12/2007, Helbling Beratung + Bauplanung wrote:
>
>Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>         boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C77D2A.CB11DF05"
>
>Hello everybody
>
>Can anyone, tell me whats the best way to 
>simulate a external wall against the ground.
>How can I define the ground ??
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>Mit freundlichen Grüssen / Kind regards
>
>Daniel Büchele
>Dipl. Ing. Gebäudeklimatik- / Technik
>Projektleiter
>
>Helbling Holding AG
>Hohlstrasse 614
>CH-8048 Zürich
>Telefon +41 44 438 18 64
>Mobile  +41 79 641 44 03
>Telefax +41 44 438 18 10
><mailto:daniel.buechele at helbling.ch>mailto:daniel.buechele at helbling.ch 
>< http://www.helbling.ch >
>
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>David BRADLEY                           2916 Marketplace Drive - Suite 104
>Partner                                        Madison, WI 53719
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****************************************************************************************
Thermal Energy System Specialists (TESS), LLC
David BRADLEY                           2916 Marketplace Drive - Suite 104
Partner                                        Madison, WI 53719
Phone: (608) 274-2577 USA
Fax: (608) 278-1475
E-mail: bradley at tess-inc.com
Web Pages:  http://www.tess-inc.com     and      http://www.trnsys.com

"Providing software solutions for today's energy engineering projects"
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