[Ibpsausa] [Bldg-sim] DOE Job Task Analysis for EnergyModelers:Open for public comment until Nov. 28th

Fri Nov 18 11:42:58 PST 2011

Hey Will,

I posed similar questions to an individual who started his career in mechanical systems consulting well before I was born.  His perspective is that energy-conscious building design has come into vogue and receded in waves over time, and will probably continue to do so as the availability of our energy resources become varies in the future.  The difference in this wave, and the reason it’s such a big deal, is that now we have all these fancy computers and software than can answer questions and reveal trends that could not be broached in the past.

I personally think it’s a stretch to suggest energy efficiency was not considered at all in the past few decades.  That may be true of some, but when 90.1 and energy code AHJ’s came along demanding less than 1.1 LPD for office lighting and using economizers where they make sense for packaged equipment and insulting the hot water lines…  many of us simply shrugged our shoulders – it was already standard practice.  

I don’t believe anyone on these lists is presently arguing against any of your other points ;).

~Nick

NICK CATON, P.E.

SENIOR ENGINEER

Smith & Boucher Engineers

25501 west valley parkway, suite 200

olathe, ks 66061

direct 913.344.0036

fax 913.345.0617

www.smithboucher.com 

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Will Mak
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 12:09 PM
To: thomasv at iit.edu; Michael A. Eustice
Cc: Kendra Tupper; Building Simulation; ibpsausa at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] [Ibpsausa] DOE Job Task Analysis for EnergyModelers:Open for public comment until Nov. 28th

I may be stepping out of line here but aren’t we in this energy mess because buildings weren’t design for energy efficiency at all due to extremely low fuel costs back in the day?? Isn’t one of the main points of modeling to justify ROI investments as opposed to the cheapest first cost systems by owners? 

We finally have some documentation process to justify to owners/clients that hey, you can’t just keep putting the cheapest systems, it’ll cost more long term!!! Are you OK with that? Or do you want to look at other options with this data analysis I’ve done??

“Michael: I am retired and I think like someone who lived in days when there was no LEED certification and no energy code compliance.  Since the first ASHRAE Std.90 came out, most if not all commercial buildings in the US were designed for energy efficieny.  The last sentence should have read "The importance of building energy analysis appears to be inflated relative to the total building design because of the amount attention given to it by lawmakers".  Example - DOE Job Task Analysis for Energy Modelers.  Energy efficient buiding design is important both in education and practice but it is just one small subject in the A-E design process. I am now a Research Professor with CoA Ph.D. program at IIT specializing in this minor topic. Varkie”

William Mak, LEED AP BD+C
Mechanical Design Engineer

EPSTEIN
600 West Fulton Street
Chicago, Illinois 60661-1259
D: (312) 429-8116

From: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Varkie C Thomas
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 11:59 AM
To: Michael A. Eustice
Cc: Building Simulation; ibpsausa at lists.onebuilding.org; Kendra Tupper
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] [Ibpsausa] DOE Job Task Analysis for EnergyModelers: Open for public comment until Nov. 28th

Michael: I am retired and I think like someone who lived in days when there was no LEED certification and no energy code compliance.  Since the first ASHRAE Std.90 came out, most if not all commercial buildings in the US were designed for energy efficieny.  The last sentence should have read "The importance of building energy analysis appears to be inflated relative to the total building design because of the amount attention given to it by lawmakers".  Example - DOE Job Task Analysis for Energy Modelers.  Energy efficient buiding design is important both in education and practice but it is just one small subject in the A-E design process. I am now a Research Professor with CoA Ph.D. program at IIT specializing in this minor topic. Varkie

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Michael A. Eustice" <MAEustice at htlyons.com> 

Date: Friday, November 18, 2011 11:04 am 

Subject: RE: [Bldg-sim] [Ibpsausa] DOE Job Task Analysis for EnergyModelers: Open for public comment until Nov. 28th 

> My experience is different than yours Varkie.  We often need to 
> simulate buildings to a high level of accuracy (too high in my 
> opinion) in order to obtain state and federal rebates and 
> incentives.  An entry level designer will most likely not be able 
> to hit those targets and I would even say most staff level 
> engineers would have a difficult time.   It takes some senior 
> level engineering to understand how the building systems operate; 
> what is a normal result; and most importantly, how the program is 
> going to react when the inputs are changed. 
> 
> I guess if the output reports are not reviewed with any scrutiny 
> and the targets have a wide range of acceptance, you could hand it 
> off to an entry level engineer.  But hitting an electric and 
> natural gas utility bill, month-to-month and a yearly overall, 
> simultaneously within +/- 10% accuracy will take a senior level 
> understanding.  Also, it�s not the time that is important as much 
> as the ability to do it.  The cost to my company for my time to 
> perform the simulation is irrelevant compared to the rebates and 
> incentives that will be unavailable, and as a consequence the 
> construction project that won�t move forward,  if the simulation 
> can�t be performed. 
> 
> Michael 
> 
> 
> The importance of building energy analysis is inflated. 
> Varkie Thomas 
> 
> 
> 

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