<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:x="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:excel" xmlns:p="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:powerpoint" xmlns:a="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:access" xmlns:dt="uuid:C2F41010-65B3-11d1-A29F-00AA00C14882" xmlns:s="uuid:BDC6E3F0-6DA3-11d1-A2A3-00AA00C14882" xmlns:rs="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:rowset" xmlns:z="#RowsetSchema" xmlns:b="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:publisher" xmlns:ss="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:spreadsheet" xmlns:c="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:component:spreadsheet" xmlns:odc="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:odc" xmlns:oa="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:activation" xmlns:html="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:q="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/" xmlns:rtc="http://microsoft.com/officenet/conferencing" xmlns:D="DAV:" xmlns:Repl="http://schemas.microsoft.com/repl/" xmlns:mt="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/meetings/" xmlns:x2="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/excel/2003/xml" xmlns:ppda="http://www.passport.com/NameSpace.xsd" xmlns:ois="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/ois/" xmlns:dir="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/directory/" xmlns:ds="http://www.w3.org/2000/09/xmldsig#" xmlns:dsp="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/dsp" xmlns:udc="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema" xmlns:sub="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/2002/1/alerts/" xmlns:ec="http://www.w3.org/2001/04/xmlenc#" xmlns:sp="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/" xmlns:sps="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:udcs="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/soap" xmlns:udcxf="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/xmlfile" xmlns:udcp2p="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/parttopart" xmlns:wf="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/workflow/" xmlns:dsss="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/digsig-setup" xmlns:dssi="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/digsig" xmlns:mdssi="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/package/2006/digital-signature" xmlns:mver="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/markup-compatibility/2006" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns:mrels="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/package/2006/relationships" xmlns:spwp="http://microsoft.com/sharepoint/webpartpages" xmlns:ex12t="http://schemas.microsoft.com/exchange/services/2006/types" xmlns:ex12m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/exchange/services/2006/messages" xmlns:pptsl="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/SlideLibrary/" xmlns:spsl="http://microsoft.com/webservices/SharePointPortalServer/PublishedLinksService" xmlns:Z="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" xmlns:st="" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"><!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]--><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"MS Mincho";
panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Arial Unicode MS";
panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@MS Mincho";
panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Stylus BT";
panose-1:2 14 4 2 2 2 6 2 3 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@Arial Unicode MS";
panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
p.MsoNoSpacing, li.MsoNoSpacing, div.MsoNoSpacing
{mso-style-priority:1;
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.BalloonTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="2050" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hey Will,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I posed similar questions to an individual who started his career in mechanical systems consulting well before I was born. His perspective is that energy-conscious building design has come into vogue and receded in waves over time, and will probably continue to do so as the availability of our energy resources become varies in the future. The difference in this wave, and the reason it’s such a big deal, is that now we have all these fancy computers and software than can answer questions and reveal trends that could not be broached in the past.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I personally think it’s a stretch to suggest energy efficiency was not considered at all in the past few decades. That may be true of some, but when 90.1 and energy code AHJ’s came along demanding less than 1.1 LPD for office lighting and using economizers where they make sense for packaged equipment and insulting the hot water lines… many of us simply shrugged our shoulders – it was already standard practice. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I don’t believe anyone on these lists is presently arguing against any of your other points ;).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>~Nick<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><img width=119 height=37 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CCA5F6.A59E13C0" alt="cid:489575314@22072009-0ABB"></span><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>NICK CATON, P.E.</span></b><b><span style='font-family:"Stylus BT","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900'>SENIOR ENGINEER<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#CC9900'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>Smith & Boucher Engineers</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:#CC9900'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>25501 west valley parkway, suite 200<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>olathe, ks 66061<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>direct 913.344.0036<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#2D4D5E'>fax 913.345.0617<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="www.smithboucher.com" title="blocked::www.smithboucher.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>www.smithboucher.com</span></a></span><u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'> </span></u><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Will Mak<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 18, 2011 12:09 PM<br><b>To:</b> thomasv@iit.edu; Michael A. Eustice<br><b>Cc:</b> Kendra Tupper; Building Simulation; ibpsausa@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] [Ibpsausa] DOE Job Task Analysis for EnergyModelers:Open for public comment until Nov. 28th<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNoSpacing><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I may be stepping out of line here but aren’t we in this energy mess because buildings <i>weren’t</i> design for energy efficiency at all due to extremely low fuel costs back in the day?? Isn’t one of the main points of modeling to justify ROI investments as opposed to the cheapest first cost systems by owners? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNoSpacing><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNoSpacing><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>We finally have some documentation process to justify to owners/clients that hey, you can’t just keep putting the cheapest systems, it’ll cost more long term!!! Are you OK with that? Or do you want to look at other options with this data analysis I’ve done??<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNoSpacing><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>“Michael: I am retired and I think like someone who lived in days when there was no LEED certification and no energy code compliance. <b><span style='color:red'>Since the first ASHRAE Std.90 came out, most if not all commercial buildings in the US were designed for energy efficieny.</span></b> The last sentence should have read "The importance of building energy analysis <strong>appears to be</strong> inflated <strong>relative to the total building design because of the amount attention given to it by lawmakers</strong>". Example - DOE Job Task Analysis for Energy Modelers. Energy efficient buiding design is important both in education and practice but it is just one small subject in the A-E design process. I am now a Research Professor with CoA Ph.D. program at IIT specializing in this minor topic. Varkie”<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#C75B12'>William Mak, LEED AP BD+C</span></b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Mechanical Design Engineer</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><br></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br></span><b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#C75B12'>EPSTEIN</span></b><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><br>600 West Fulton Street<br>Chicago, Illinois 60661-1259<br>D: (312) 429-8116<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Varkie C Thomas<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 18, 2011 11:59 AM<br><b>To:</b> Michael A. Eustice<br><b>Cc:</b> Building Simulation; ibpsausa@lists.onebuilding.org; Kendra Tupper<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] [Ibpsausa] DOE Job Task Analysis for EnergyModelers: Open for public comment until Nov. 28th<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Michael: I am retired and I think like someone who lived in days when there was no LEED certification and no energy code compliance. Since the first ASHRAE Std.90 came out, most if not all commercial buildings in the US were designed for energy efficieny. The last sentence should have read "The importance of building energy analysis <strong>appears to be</strong> inflated <strong>relative to the total building design because of the amount attention given to it by lawmakers</strong>". Example - DOE Job Task Analysis for Energy Modelers. Energy efficient buiding design is important both in education and practice but it is just one small subject in the A-E design process. I am now a Research Professor with CoA Ph.D. program at IIT specializing in this minor topic. Varkie<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b>----- Original Message -----</b> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b>From</b>: "Michael A. Eustice" <MAEustice@htlyons.com> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b>Date</b>: Friday, November 18, 2011 11:04 am <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b>Subject</b>: RE: [Bldg-sim] [Ibpsausa] DOE Job Task Analysis for EnergyModelers: Open for public comment until Nov. 28th <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> My experience is different than yours Varkie. We often need to <br>> simulate buildings to a high level of accuracy (too high in my <br>> opinion) in order to obtain state and federal rebates and <br>> incentives. An entry level designer will most likely not be able <br>> to hit those targets and I would even say most staff level <br>> engineers would have a difficult time. It takes some senior <br>> level engineering to understand how the building systems operate; <br>> what is a normal result; and most importantly, how the program is <br>> going to react when the inputs are changed. <br>> <br>> I guess if the output reports are not reviewed with any scrutiny <br>> and the targets have a wide range of acceptance, you could hand it <br>> off to an entry level engineer. But hitting an electric and <br>> natural gas utility bill, month-to-month and a yearly overall, <br>> simultaneously within +/- 10% accuracy will take a senior level <br>> understanding. Also, it<span style='font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif"'>�</span>s not the time that is important as much <br>> as the ability to do it. The cost to my company for my time to <br>> perform the simulation is irrelevant compared to the rebates and <br>> incentives that will be unavailable, and as a consequence the <br>> construction project that won<span style='font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif"'>�</span>t move forward, if the simulation <br>> can<span style='font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif"'>�</span>t be performed. <br>> <br>> Michael <br>> <br>> <br>> The importance of building energy analysis is inflated. <br>> Varkie Thomas <br>> <br>> <br>> <o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>