[Equest-users] New CWEC files and snow/rain flags - update
Joe Huang
yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com
Thu Jan 11 18:51:22 PST 2018
Christopher,
This is very interesting information for several reasons:
(1) the snow and rain flags are not part of the raw data stream from the weather stations,
so I've assumed they have to be extracted from the Present Weather reports,
(2) the wy3 is a derived weather file format developed for ASHRAE back in the late 1990s
so old that Env Canada might be the only place still using it; I'm not aware that the wy3
contains the snow/rain flags but they must have been put there by Env. Canada, and I would
be very interested to see how these flags correlate to what I can get from the Present
Weather data in the raw weather files.
In the little bit of time I've spent looking into this issue over the past week, I was
unsure which of the PW codes should be used for the Snow/Rain flags. Take a look at the
attached table of Present Weather Observation Codes currently used in weather station
reports, i.e., METAR. Should we use all the 7's as ISNOW, although 74 - 76 refers to "Ice
Pellets", and what about 85 - 87 referring to "Snow showers or intermittent rain"?
Similarly, we can use all the 6's as IRAIN, but what about 24 (Rain), 25 (Freezing
Drizzle), etc.? That's why I'm very interested to see what Env. Canada did.
(I'm also adding BLDG-SIM back to this post because the same issue has been in discussions
there, too.
Joe
Joe Huang
White Box Technologies, Inc.
346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A
Moraga CA 94556
yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com
http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com for simulation-ready weather data
(o) (925)388-0265
(c) (510)928-2683
"building energy simulations at your fingertips"
On 1/11/2018 10:57 AM, Jones, Christopher wrote:
>
> The Environment Canada website has the latest version of the CWEC files - .epw and raw,
> .wy3 format. The .epw file does not include the snow rain flags but the raw data .wy3
> file does. I converted the .wy3 file to .bin using the DOE2 weather processor and voila,
> the snow and rain flags are included in the .bin file. Now, I only converted 1 file as a
> test but it is encouraging.
>
> **
>
> *Christopher R. Jones*, P.Eng.
>
> Technical Specialist
>
> Sustainability & Energy
>
> T +1 416-644-0252
>
> 2300 Yonge Street, Suite 2300
>
> Toronto, ON M4P 1E4 Canada
>
> wsp.com
>
> __
>
> **
>
> /Please consider the environment before printing.../
>
> *From:*Joe Huang [mailto:yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 09, 2018 4:50 PM
> *To:* Brian Fountain <bfountain at greensim.com>; Jones, Christopher
> <Christopher.r.Jones at wsp.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Bldg-sim] [EnergyPlus_Support] RE: [Equest-users] White Box Technologies
> brings simulation weather data to the satellite age
>
> Hmm, the Canadian contingent on the bulletin boards are voicing their needs in weather
> data :-) This reminds me of the one trip I took to Calgary in December 20+ years ago
> and seeing the parking lots had electrical outlets at each spot so that car engines
> would not freeze up. I was duly impressed.
>
> Back to the snow flag on weather files, isn't the condition of most relevance whether
> there's snow cover, rather than whether it's snowing? Unfortunately, the weather
> station raw data do not report this, which could vary quite a bit depending on the
> ground surface anyway. There ARE fields for solid precipitation similar to those for
> liquid precipitation. I've never looked carefully at these, but they might give the
> amount of snow fall over the past so many hours, which would be an improvement over the
> Present Weather that just tells whether or not there is snowfall that hour. One might be
> able to calculate snow cover based on the amount of snow fall, solar radiation, and
> temperature. It's quite likely that some meteorologist or physicist with time on
> his/her hands might have already done that in Canada. If you know of any such work,
> let me know.
>
> Just based on what I've read so far, I'm going to start putting in the IRAIN and ISNOW
> flags into the DOE-2 *.binm files.
>
> Joe
>
> Joe Huang
> White Box Technologies, Inc.
> 346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A
> Moraga CA 94556
> yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com <mailto:yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com>
> http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com for simulation-ready weather data
> (o) (925)388-0265
> (c) (510)928-2683
> "building energy simulations at your fingertips"
>
> On 1/8/2018 4:35 PM, Brian Fountain wrote:
>
> As Chris suggested, they aren't used directly in the sim ... but we use them to
> create custom schedules for snow melting loads.
>
> On 08/01/2018 6:44 PM, Joe Huang via Bldg-sim wrote:
>
> The rain and snow flags are still available in the raw weather station data, but
> haven't been included in the processed weather files since the 1990's because
> everyone in this hemisphere at least have adopted the TMY2/TMY3 formats, in
> content if not the literal file format, developed by NREL, which does not
> include these two flags. I was also under the impression that none of the
> simulation programs, such as DOE-2, do not use these two flags anyway. If
> these flags are of use, it would make sense to include them, which would not
> require a change in the DOE-2 *.BINM format, but would require a change to the
> EnergyPlus *.epw format.
>
> Joe
>
> Joe Huang
>
> White Box Technologies, Inc.
>
> 346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A
>
> Moraga CA 94556
>
> yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com <mailto:yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com>
>
> http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com for simulation-ready weather data
>
> (o) (925)388-0265
>
> (c) (510)928-2683
>
> "building energy simulations at your fingertips"
>
> On 1/8/2018 12:15 PM, 'Jones, Christopher' christopher.r.jones at wsp.com
> <mailto:christopher.r.jones at wsp.com> [EnergyPlus_Support] wrote:
>
> I have a question – what happened to the rain and snow flags that were in
> the old CWEC file but are missing in the latest versions. Many snow melting
> systems have a snow/rain sensor in the slab used to trigger the system on.
>
> **
>
> *Christopher R. Jones*, P.Eng.
>
> Technical Specialist
>
> Sustainability & Energy
>
> T +1 416-644-0252
>
> 2300 Yonge Street, Suite 2300
>
> Toronto, ON M4P 1E4 Canada
>
>
> wsp.com
>
> **
>
> /Please consider the environment before printing.../
>
> *From:*Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Joe Huang via Equest-users
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 02, 2018 10:15 PM
> *To:* Nicholas Caton <Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com>
> <mailto:Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com>; BLDG-SIM
> <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org> <mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>;
> EnergyPlus_Support <EnergyPlus_Support at yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support at yahoogroups.com>; equest-users at onebuilding.org
> <mailto:equest-users at onebuilding.org>
> *Cc:* Jim Dirkes <jim at buildingperformanceteam.com>
> <mailto:jim at buildingperformanceteam.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] White Box Technologies brings simulation
> weather data to the satellite age
>
> Nick,
>
> This is an interesting topic that has evolved in an unexpected way. Now
> that NREL has mastered the technology of satellite-derived solar radiation,
> they have regarded weather station data as an impediment, since there's no
> way to get such measured data to match the 5-kilometer grid of the
> satellite-derived solar. Therefore, they have abandoned the weather station
> data (which was was used in all the TMYs to date) and gone instead to
> Reanalysis Data from NOAA's MERRA, which is running a climate forecasting
> model in retrospective mode. I don't have time now to discuss reanalysis,
> except to say that from what I've seen the results are decidedly "iffy".
> Almost two years ago, I managed to get a Work Statement through ASHRAE for
> someone to take a good look at reanalysis data.
>
> So, what does this mean for your question? NREL's National Solar Radiation
> Data Base (NSRDB) can now get you the hourly time series or a TMY for more
> than a million grid points over the US, all with satellite-derived solar
> radiation but MERRA results for the other climate parameters. I've told
> NREL several years ago that for the building simulation industry it would be
> much better to merge the satellite-derived solar with actual station data
> that give good accurate coverage of urban areas where buildings are located.
> NREL's response was that they'd be happy to do this, but someone has to pay
> them for the work.
>
> In response to your hypothesis below, I think you're being too disparaging
> of the previous modeling efforts while raising too high your expectations of
> satellite solar. It's not that the previous models failed to account for
> local climate conditions, but that they lacked good data to drive them. For
> example, all models included terms for cloud cover and clearness, or for the
> more detailed physical models arcane parameters like aerosol optical depth,
> preciptable moisture, etc., but how available are the input data and how
> reliable are they? The advantages of satellite-derived solar are that they
> provide a comprehensive and objective view of the cloud conditions, which
> combined with satellite measurements of the atmospheric conditions and
> improved modeling, results in accuracies that previous modeling efforts can
> not attain. As far as discerning localized effects of smog and dust in
> urban areas, that would still depend on whether there's sufficient
> monitoring at that spatial and time scale to detect the differences. What
> I mean is that it's one thing to observe that in general urban locations
> have more smog and particulates than rural locations, but it's something
> else to quantify the resultant differences in solar radiation over time and
> distance.
>
> I'd like to take the opportunity here to step back and comment on the status
> of weather data for the building energy community, My interactions with NREL
> has brought the realization that we have been piggy-backing on the efforts
> of others outside our community for our weather data. I don't intend to
> pick on the NREL Solar Program, several of whom I consider friends and
> colleagues, but their target client is the solar power industry. Since
> solar power arrays can be installed anywhere, preferably in rural
> uninhabited locations, it makes sense to go to satellite-derived solar.
> It's also clear that to serve that industry, NREL would focus its efforts on
> getting the best solar values, while all the other climatic parameters, like
> temperature, humidity, wind speed, etc., are secondary, which may be why
> getting them from MERRA is a satisfactory choice. The focus on solar is
> also evident in the weighting used by NREL to develop the TMYs, with 50%
> weight placed on the 2 solar and 50% on the remaining 8 non-solar parameters.
>
> For the building energy community, or priorities are somewhat different.
> Since 99% of buildings are located in urban locations, we should focus much
> more on climate in urban areas. Luckily, that's also where the great
> majority of existing weather are located, which is why I'm resistant to
> throwing out measured weather data and replacing them with synthetic data,
> no matter how much they've been "seeded" with real data. As for the
> weighting of climate parameters in selecting the typical months, why not
> use building energy simulations and weight them by the distribution of
> heating and cooling loads?
>
> Joe
>
> Joe Huang
>
> White Box Technologies, Inc.
>
> 346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A
>
> Moraga CA 94556
>
> yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com <mailto:yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com>
>
> http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com for simulation-ready weather data
>
> (o) (925)388-0265
>
> (c) (510)928-2683
>
> "building energy simulations at your fingertips"
>
> On 1/2/2018 9:30 AM, Nicholas Caton wrote:
>
> Hi Joe,
>
> From your perspective, are NREL or any other government/professional
> bodies making moves/indications to update/refresh the current TMY3 sets
> to utilize satellite-derived solar radiation? Seems like a no-brainer
> for our industry, but is there a counter-argument? It seems likely, but
> has there been rigorous comparisons of satellite-derived solar radiation
> against measured values and/or our “present-day” solar models used to
> derive solar radiation information for building energy simulation?
>
> Also, I’m trying to understand and correctly characterize the impact of
> this development in simple terms my brain can follow. Is it fair to say:
>
> The solar models used in developing weather files for building energy
> simulations to-date in our industry (including all/most
> industry-standard TMY weather sets), because they have been using solar
> radiation derived from (evolving) solar models, have _not_ accounted for
> the likes of local climate cloud cover / smog / dust? Seattle (~47°N)
> has perhaps been seeing as much sunlight through the winter as Paris
> (~48°N)?
>
> Does satellite-derived solar radiation address some or all of these
> local climate issues (cloud cover, smog, dust) affecting direct/indirect
> solar radiation?
>
> Thanks sincerely for all your teaching Joe,
>
> ~Nick
>
> *Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP*
>
> Senior Energy Engineer
> Regional Energy Engineering Manager
>
> Energy and Sustainability Services
> Schneider Electric
>
>
>
> D 913.564.6361
> M 785.410.3317
> F 913.564.6380
> E nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com
> <mailto:nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com>
>
>
>
> 15200 Santa Fe Trail Drive
> Suite 204
> Lenexa, KS 66219
> United States
>
> *From:*Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Joe Huang via Equest-users
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:13 PM
> *To:* BLDG-SIM <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
> <mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>; EnergyPlus_Support
> <EnergyPlus_Support at yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:EnergyPlus_Support at yahoogroups.com>;
> equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> <mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
> *Subject:* [Equest-users] White Box Technologies brings simulation
> weather data to the satellite age
>
> It is with joy and some trepidation to report that White Box
> Technologies (WBT) is updating all its historical weather files with
> satellite-derived solar radiation. Joy because this overcomes what has
> been the most significant question mark with weather files; trepidation
> because of the amount of work needed to carry out and maintain this
> effort. To show that this is more than marketing hype, I need to give a
> rather long explanation about this development.
>
> The bane of weather data over the past three decades has been the solar
> radiation (global horizontal and direct normal) which are not measured
> parameters, but derived using various solar and sky models. All the
> familiar "typical year" sets, i.e., TMY, WYEC, IWEC, etc., let alone the
> historical weather files, have modeled solar radiation. Although a lot of
> work has gone into such models (see M. Iqbal,"An Introduction to Solar
> Radiation", Academic Press, 1983), there remain an almost intractible
> problem of the lack of good measured solar to tune any of these models.
> For example, in the ASHRAE IWEC2 weather files, my team was able to find
> one or two years' measured data for less than 50 locations,
> from which were derived 28 sets of regression coefficients then used for
> all 3,012 IWEC2 locations.
>
> For the past decade and a half, researchers around the world have been
> working to derive solar radiation from weather satellite imagery, driven
> largely by the needs of the solar power industry for the siting of solar
> power plants and getting "bankable" solar estimates for their arrays.
> Our little building energy simulation sector can of course benefit by
> hanging on the coattails of the solar power industry, but the downside
> has been to be totally priced out, since the commercial cost for one
> year's solar data for one location (grid cell) typically runs around $1,000.
>
> A welcome development over the last five years is that various
> government offices or affiliated consortia are now beginning to also
> providing access to satellite-derived solar radiation at minimal or more
> acceptable costs under various conditions. Over the past three years,
> WBT has obtained access to such data and permission for its use in WBT
> weather files.
> WBT is now either replacing the solar radiation on its historical
> weather files, or using satellite-derived radiation to develop custom
> solar coefficients for each location to extend the satellite-derived
> solar to time periods outside the available time window. With the
> exception of polar locations above or below 60/66 degrees, island
> nations in the Pacific and Indian Ocean, and a few unfortunate "blind
> spots", the entire land mass is being covered with at least 10 years up
> to 18 years of hourly solar records.
>
> Starting in 2018, WBT historical weather files in the following areas
> will all have satellite-derived solar radiation for the following time
> periods: Europe, Africa, South America east of 66 West, i.e., Brazil and
> Uruguay (2004 to date), Australia (1999 to date), and East Asia (2007 to
> date, access pending). WBT historical weather files in the following
> areas will have satellite-derived solar radiation for the indicated time
> periods - North America and Central/South American down to 20 South
> (1998-2015), South Asia (2000-2014), with modeled solar radiation from
> 2016 on that has been individually tuned to the past satellite-derived
> solar.
>
> Another benefit to the satellite-derived solar is to increases the
> number of available weather stations, which in many places has been
> limited by the lack of cloud cover data needed to model the solar
> radiation. For reasons that are not immediately identifiable, several
> English-speaking Commonwealth countries has seen a marked drop in the
> number of available stations due to the decreases in the reporting of
> cloud cover (see plot, ZAF = South Africa). For example, the number of
> stations in the UK has dropped by almost 2/3s between 2001 and 2017 (174
> to 64), but with satellite-derived solar, it will go back up to over
> 180, while in Australia and South Africa the comparable numbers are from
> 175 to well over 500, and from 37 to over 100, respectively.
>
> If interested, customers who have purchased a historical weather files
> from WBT over the past five years can get an updated weather file at no
> cost. Lastly, although it will take at least a month to update all
> 10,000 2017 files, it's very quick to do for any specific location or
> even 50 or so locations. Therefore, if you have an urgent request please
> e-mail me and I will put that at the beginning of the queue for that day.
>
> --
>
> Joe Huang
>
> White Box Technologies, Inc.
>
> 346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A
>
> Moraga CA 94556
>
> yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com <mailto:yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com>
>
> http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com for simulation-ready weather data
>
> (o) (925)388-0265
>
> (c) (510)928-2683
>
> "building energy simulations at your fingertips"
>
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