[Equest-users] Modeling ERVs that use air from multiple zones

Wed Mar 29 06:33:21 PDT 2017

Paula,

If the transferred air is at room temperature and does not affect the loads of the room the air is going into, you could simply exhaust the air from the corridor in your model instead of exhausting it from the room. The energy use would be the same.

If the transfer air is intended to help heat or cool the rooms that the air is being transferred to, then it gets more complicated. Perhaps in the model you could supply the air (or a fraction of the air) directly to the rooms that receive transferred air instead of the corridor and put an energy recovery unit in each room. In the model you are simply dividing up the energy use of the single large unit into a number of smaller units. The total energy consumption will be the same. For energy aspects that are not on a per cfm basis, like maybe a motor to spin an energy wheel, you will need to divide the power appropriately.

Remember that an energy model doesn't need to model the building systems exactly. It just needs to estimate the energy use of the building's systems.

Hope this helps!

Keith Swartz, PE | Senior Energy Engineer
Seventhwave
608.210.7123 seventhwave.org

From: Nicholas Caton via Equest-users [mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org]
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 1:28 PM
To: 'equest-users' <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Modeling ERVs that use air from multiple zones

I'd first consider grouping all restroom zones + the serving corridor zone(s) under a single "corridor" system in your model.  This allows ERV inputs specified in one place only, and simplifies specifying heating-only between the system inputs and control zone(s)' thermostat schedules for the needed OA pre-conditioning.

Think about whether the restrooms actually received pre-heated corridor air vs. something "more conditioned."  This might not be a perfect fit if the restrooms' conditioned makeup actually comes from cooled spaces or directly from other AHU's... but this would be a starting point in that case and the differential in terms of what's seen at the ERV might not be meaningful enough to get worked up about.

You could also go down a path of replicating/weighting ERV inputs between the affected systems instead, but I suspect that would probably end up being much more work than the above alternative for your scenario.

Getting exhaust/relief loads transposed between systems to be seen with ERV is indeed tricky, but an explored path with a destination at least.  It entails quantifying the hourly sensible/latent loads you mean to transpose, and spoon-feeding those loads into a space under the receiving ERV via a "free" hourly process schedule.  This is done most commonly I think in concert with the OA-FROM-SYSTEM + "dummy zone" approaches to tackle DOAS that also involves heat recovery equipment, if anyone needs some search terms to find related threads in the archives.

~Nick
[cid:image001.png at 01D2A865.88831160]
Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP
  Senior Energy Engineer
  Regional Energy Engineering Manager
  Energy and Sustainability Services
  Schneider Electric

D  913.564.6361
M  785.410.3317
F  913.564.6380
E  nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com<mailto:nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com>

15200 Santa Fe Trail Drive
Suite 204
Lenexa, KS 66219
United States

[cid:image002.png at 01D2A865.88831160]

From: Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Saaf, Paula via Equest-users
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 12:35 PM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: [Equest-users] Modeling ERVs that use air from multiple zones

Hi All,

How do you model an ERV that is using exhaust air from toilet exhaust that comes from multiple zones?  The toilets are in zones that are associated with different AHUs.  The ERV is providing fresh air to a corridor.  There is a hot water coil in the ERV.  That's the only "conditioning" the air gets.

Looking at Nicks sketch in the Energy Recovery Wheel on VAV System - zonal exhaust thread it appears that eQuest cannot use exhaust air from one zone to an ERV that is attached to another zone.

Thanks for you input.

Best regards
for KEMA Inc

Paula Saaf P.E.
Engineer, Middletown

paula.saaf at dnvgl.com<mailto:paula.saaf at dnvgl.com>
Direct +1 860 3465001
dnvgl.com<http://dnvgl.com/>  |  LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/company/dnvgl>

[DNV GL]<http://www.dnvgl.com/>
This message may contain confidential or private information. If you are not the addressee, please return the message to its sender and delete it from your files.  Please consider the environment before printing this email.

**************************************************************************************
This e-mail and any attachments thereto may contain confidential information and/or information protected by intellectual property rights for the exclusive attention of the intended addressees named above. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this message and its attachments. Unauthorized use, copying or further full or partial distribution of this e-mail or its contents is prohibited.
**************************************************************************************

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
______________________________________________________________________
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/equest-users-onebuilding.org/attachments/20170329/f099c986/attachment-0002.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.png
Type: image/png
Size: 255 bytes
Desc: image001.png
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/equest-users-onebuilding.org/attachments/20170329/f099c986/attachment-0004.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image002.png
Type: image/png
Size: 8477 bytes
Desc: image002.png
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/equest-users-onebuilding.org/attachments/20170329/f099c986/attachment-0005.png>