[Equest-users] Tank less DWH

[Morteza Kasmai via Equest-users]

Nick,

Thank you for your guidance, as always your suggestions is very helpful.

I am agreeing with you that serious energy savings related to service hot
water serving is through low flow fixtures, however the manufacturer
provided some engineering data, including thermal efficiency, of the water
heater (page 8 of the attach file) that I thought can be helpful to achieve
more savings.

I wanted to be sure on selecting the correct system for the base model. As
I understand from your suggestions, since this is storage less heater in
the proposed design, for the baseline model, I have to select “Gas
instantaneous water heater” in Table 7.8 and there are no any other
options, is this correct?

I truly appreciate your help,
Morteza




On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Nicholas Caton <
Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com> wrote:

> I don’t believe I’ve ever documented 30-40% Service Hot Water savings on
> unitary heating equipment alone.  Either your designer/manufacturer must
> also be counting on serious reductions with low flow fixtures, or somebody
> is trying to sell something...
>
>
>
> The Appendix G Table G3.1 will direct you back towards the table at the
> end of the Service Water Heating section in 90.1 for direct guidance on
> what the baseline case should reflect in relation to your proposed case
> instantaneous heaters.  Looks like for your make/model you’ll be needing to
> address both thermal combustion efficiency AND determine standby losses
> based upon the capacity of the unit cited.
>
>
>
> I’d advise caution before immediately entering “n/a” for proposed case
> standby losses in your LEED documentation.  Consider whether in fact there
> is a storage tank somewhere, or other opportunities outside of combustion
> and piping distributions for heat to leave the system.
>
>
>
> For the proposed case side, I might poke the manufacturer (time allowing)
> to provide you a thermal efficiency (combustion + condensate recovery) at a
> sampling of firing rates for a given delta (ground water à delivery
> temp), and use that data to evaluate whether the library curves eQUEST
> assigns for instantaneous gas boilers is in alignment or otherwise needs
> tweaking.  If you don’t have time to dive this far I’d simply be mindful to
> ensure baseline + proposed case curves are at least matching.
>
>
>
> Hope that helps!
>
>
>
> ~Nick
>
>
>
> *Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP*
>
>   Senior Energy Engineer
>   Regional Energy Engineering Manager
>
>   Energy and Sustainability Services
>   Schneider Electric
>
> D  913.564.6361 <(913)%20564-6361>
> M  785.410.3317 <(785)%20410-3317>
> F  913.564.6380 <(913)%20564-6380>
> E  nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com
>
> 15200 Santa Fe Trail Drive
> Suite 204
> Lenexa, KS 66219
> United States
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Morteza Kasmai via Equest-users
> *Sent:* Monday, June 19, 2017 10:54 AM
> *To:* equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* [Equest-users] Tank less DWH
>
>
>
> Hello, everyone
>
> I am trying to model a new DWH (Intelli-hot system Gen-II-iQ1501) for a
> mid-rise residential building. This is a high-output, on-demand water
> heater, which eliminates storage tank, standby losses, and mixing valves.
> Per the manufacturers and the project’s engineer notes, expected savings on
> hot water for this type of WH compare to a regular storage tank WH is 30%
> to 40%. I am wondering what type of WH should I select for the Baseline
> Case in order to comply with ASHRAE/LEED energy modeling protocol.
>
>
> Your thoughts and suggestions would be highly appreciated,
> Morteza
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
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