[Equest-users] [Bldg-sim] 8760 Load Profiles

Wed Jun 21 11:56:33 PDT 2017

My contribution will echo with Justin’s:

Your first and best source of what the load profiles look like in aggregate for a given site is whatever you can come up with from the utilities and any upstream campus submeters / logs.  Before running down the path of “building up” to what’s seen at the bills and campus meter(s), establish how far you can get looking at this from the “top down.”  I would try to constrain a prototype-driven “build up” exercise to only providing a loose context to what might make up what’s actually being measured in aggregate.  With some luck, you might find interval data exists which isn’t otherwise published or shared out by the utility campus metering folks.

If you (or your client) have any purpose-built models developed already to evaluate/calibrate against existing bills, I’d would definitely consider leveraging those before falling back to from-scratch DOE reference models.

Time/resources spent making a guess “from scratch” might be better invested exploring options to add some logging/metering to get some real insight into what the aggregate profile really looks like, even if only for a short period.

~Nick

[cid:image001.png at 01D2EA94.EBC19F00]
Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP
  Senior Energy Engineer
  Regional Energy Engineering Manager
  Energy and Sustainability Services
  Schneider Electric

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[cid:image002.png at 01D2EA94.EBC19F00]

From: Bldg-sim [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Justin Spencer via Bldg-sim
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 10:26 AM
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] 8760 Load Profiles

I like calibrating to whatever you can get. If you are talking about aggregate loadshapes, like I'm usually working with when consulting with utilities, then calibrating to whole facility data can be quite enlightening. In general, an average of existing real building loads looks a lot different than the output you might get from the prototypes. After you mess with schedules (keep your calibration loose), then the resulting profiles can be quite a bit better. The primary difference that we see is that real buildings use a lot more electricity at night and on weekends than their prototypes suggest. Yes, you are guessing which end uses are off, but if you have hourly data across multiple seasons and types of weather, then you should be able to make some good guesses that would represent improvements on the prototypes. Don't overdo it. You still don't know very much.

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Jim Dirkes via Bldg-sim <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>> wrote:
Dear Coles,
Quoting Dru Crawley (who got it elsewhere) "All models are wrong, but some are useful".  That applies doubly to instances where you want to match metered data with modeled data.

As I participate in both the modeling and commissioning arenas, I'm keenly aware of the (literally) hundreds of ways a building can operate differently than imagined by the modeler (or DOE's reference models). Differences are often major!

The scenario you describe appears to be what a statistician would describe as "under-constrained" - you probably don't know enough details about actual operation to understand which of several low RSME calibration solutions are correct. :(

At the risk of blathering on too long, I think your project places you on the leading edge of energy practice and research; good luck!

p.s., there are some nifty software tools which promise effective analysis of buildings with BMS'. Among them are SkySpark <https://skyfoundry.com/skyspark/> and a few others, with newcomer BuildPulse<http://www.buildpulse.com/>. Their approach is to apply FDD rule sets and identify operational problems.
Another nifty tool is the (totally) wire-free CT sensors from Panoramic Power<http://www.panpwr.com/>, which we've used for sub-metering complex facilities.

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 10:29 AM, Jennings, Coles via Bldg-sim <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>> wrote:
Hello all,

I’ve gotten some great responses, both privately and on the public thread. I really appreciate the feedback from the group. The consensus definitely appears to be to use the DoE prototype buildings to create sample load profiles. For those that are not already aware, I located this database, which includes both commercial and residential 8,760 load profiles, broken out by end-use:

http://en.openei.org/datasets/dataset/commercial-and-residential-hourly-load-profiles-for-all-tmy3-locations-in-the-united-states

The commercial profiles are based on the DoE prototypes and have been run for just about every significant location in the US. Does anyone else have experience with this database?

My search continues for a repository of real, metered data to complement the simulation data. Modeling is always my first tool in the toolkit as well, but the more metered data I see coming back from our clients (which can take a lot of begging to get), the more I realize that some of the “typical” profiles from standard modeling guidelines are a little more idealized than I used to think.

Thanks to all,

Coles Jennings PE, BEMP, LEED AP BD+C
Sr. Energy Engineer, Building Sciences Manager | Mason & Hanger
A Day & Zimmermann Company
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From: Dru Crawley [mailto:dbcrawley at gmail.com<mailto:dbcrawley at gmail.com>]
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 5:32 PM
To: Jennings, Coles <Coles.Jennings at MasonandHanger.com<mailto:Coles.Jennings at MasonandHanger.com>>
Cc: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] 8760 Load Profiles

One option is to use the reference building models used to test development of ASHRAE Standard 90.1 and output 8760 hour end-use data. The models by themselves do not output the 8760 data but it is a minor tweak to allow them to do that. 18 building types available in 16 climate zones.  https://www.energycodes.gov/development/commercial/prototype_models<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.energycodes.gov_development_commercial_prototype-5Fmodels&d=DwMFaQ&c=xB5UQg5qXm2axe_t44neldV-XNditz6D2ZXZLA0vHlE&r=JrIPsTq2z-_669uhqn51VqSZFL7dpX6NqxKBTKpeQZ9m5XksAJHnQhCI_rEcbMFG&m=cqRY1mJf56oxqepBYgWSPa-8S1fLmGwU3qsjkHWFRgQ&s=-18u1FuXkYX77l1jU7blP0wJRKPaaTqoJKDmMVwDwwA&e=>

On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Jennings, Coles via Bldg-sim <bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org>> wrote:
Hello all,

We’re conducting a microgrid study for a campus-style facility and need to be able to aggregate the hourly loads of the campus buildings (various types and sizes) into a single load profile. I’m reaching out to gauge what the best sources are for typical 8,760 building load profiles (free or purchased). Ideally these would be broken out by end-use category, but that’s not a strict requirement. At a minimum, I’d need the ability to pull a unique profile based on building use type and climate zone.

Thanks,

Coles Jennings PE, BEMP, LEED AP BD+C
Sr. Energy Engineer, Building Sciences Manager | Mason & Hanger
A Day & Zimmermann Company
D 804.521.7045<tel:(804)%20521-7045> | O 804.285.4171<tel:(804)%20285-4171> | F 804.217.8520<tel:(804)%20217-8520>
4880 Sadler Road, Suite 300 | Glen Allen, VA 23060
Mason & Hanger<http://www.masonandhanger.com/>
We do what we say.®

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