[Equest-users] Fw: Composite wall of frame and cavity insulation

Mon Apr 3 08:39:07 PDT 2017

Alternately, you can use the BC Hydro Building Envelope Thermal Bridging Guide. It was developed by Morrison Hirschfield using 3-D thermal modeling. It is very informative reading. Appendix A includes diagrams of all the constructions analyzed. Appendix B has the performance of all those constructions.

https://www.bchydro.com/powersmart/business/programs/new-construction.html#thermal

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Christopher R. Jones, P.Eng.
Technical Specialist

WSP Canada Inc.
2300 Yonge Street, Suite 2300
Toronto, ON M4P 1E4 Canada
T +1 416-644-0252

www.wspgroup.ca<http://www.wspgroup.ca/>

Please consider the environment before printing...

From: Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Nicholas Caton via Equest-users
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2017 11:19 AM
To: John Aulbach <jra_sac at yahoo.com>
Cc: 'equest-users' <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] Fw: Composite wall of frame and cavity insulation

It would be nice quality-of-life feature to someday add a “framing + insulation” calculator to the detailed interface, but in the interim it’s not too bad to look up:

With 90.1-2007 open/at-hand:

·        Table A9.2B details effective R-values for a layer of steel studs + batt layer, for a variety of spacing & framing dimensions.

·        For wood framing, a parallel path calc can reference:

o   R-1.25/in for two-by wood framing (See Table A9.4D if you are uncertain of actual lumber depth dimensions), and

o   Table A9.4C to look up effective batt insulation when compressed into wood stud cavities for various dimensions.

I would expect these to line up very closely with the insulation+ framing layer the wizards generate.  Opening a second instance of eQUEST to leverage the wizard dropdowns is an option I suppose, though I’m not sure if it will save you much time relative to tabbing a copy of 90.1.

~Nick

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Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP
  Senior Energy Engineer
  Regional Energy Engineering Manager
  Energy and Sustainability Services
  Schneider Electric

D  913.564.6361
M  785.410.3317
F  913.564.6380
E  nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com<mailto:nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com>

15200 Santa Fe Trail Drive
Suite 204
Lenexa, KS 66219
United States

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From: John Aulbach [mailto:jra_sac at yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2017 10:28 PM
To: Nicholas Caton <Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com<mailto:Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com>>
Cc: 'equest-users' <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>>
Subject: Re: RE: [Equest-users] Fw: Composite wall of frame and cavity insulation

Hi Nick:

You just keep doing what you are doing. You do this forum a great service.

Back before you were born, I recall a California Energy Commission manual that gave equivalent U-Values for framing plus insulation - whole tables, and am currently trying to find them.

When you input a frame (wood or metal) with a certain batt insulation R-value, the resulting code in the .INP file (or in the Detail Edit wall composition), it comes out like the attached (E1 EWall Cons Mat 2 (6)). I cannot find this reference in any eQuest or DOE-2 documentation.

But it MEANS something !! Change the framing and its spacing at the R value and the code changes.

THAT is the coding i am seeking.

Thanks.

John
On Friday, March 31, 2017, 6:25:37 AM PDT, Nicholas Caton <Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com<mailto:Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com>> wrote:

I’ll keep working on getting myself older and learned… I’m at least accomplishing one of those things day by day!

Are you looking specifically for framing + insulation layer properties for a MATERIAL?  I’m not aware if those exist in any current eQUEST library as distributed, but you can look up various combinations for wood/steel framing in 90.1 Appendix A (two separate tables).

There are some (though not a ton) of library LAYERS describing different interior/exterior constructions with attributed ASHRAE codes, but I’m not very clear on what list of constructions these labels are supposed to reference.  Presumably something in Fundamentals of a specific year/vintage, I would guess.

Regards,

~Nick

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Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP

  Senior Energy Engineer
  Regional Energy Engineering Manager

  Energy and Sustainability Services
  Schneider Electric

D  913.564.6361
M  785.410.3317
F  913.564.6380
E  nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com<mailto:nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com>

15200 Santa Fe Trail Drive
Suite 204
Lenexa, KS 66219
United States

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From: Equest-users [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of John Aulbach via Equest-users
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 11:57 AM
To: Equest-users <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>>
Subject: [Equest-users] Fw: Composite wall of frame and cavity insulation

Cant seem to get this message through. Will try again.

----- Forwarded Message -----

From: John Aulbach <jra_sac at yahoo.com<mailto:jra_sac at yahoo.com>>

To: Equest-users <equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org<mailto:equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org>>

Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017, 2:29:30 AM PDT

Subject: Composite wall of frame and cavity insulation

This is probably something for older learned types (or Nick Caton).

I seem to remember somewhere in the cobwebs of DOE-2 having a particular steel (or wood) framing size and spacing and having different insulating R-values added in the air space between A wall section code fell out, thus being able to be put into a DETAIL Edit construction.

Is the answer to make a dummy Wizard run, create the steel frame spacing, add the insulation, then go to the tree diagram and determine the wall "code" it invented.

This stuff doesn't appear to exist in the wall library.

Thanks

John

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