[Equest-users] LEED-parking garage question/advice needed

[Pasha Korber-Gonzalez]

Thanks Jeremy,

I wasn't aware of the 5-year metering requirement for Energy Star...that
does help me 'accept' the advice for the model a bit more.  However, it
still doesn't sit right with me to split a buiding amongst several model
files for the same reason that you mentioned about disproportionate sim
results.

I liked your observations for the finished model--thanks for sharing your
experience on that.  I also like the idea of doing a separate model for the
garage itself with the approach of keeping all the models in separate files,
but I think I will have to reconsider the multi-files approach versus
inputting all 5 structures into one model file.   hmmmm......

pkg

On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 9:53 AM, Jeremy Poling <jpoling at epsteinglobal.com>wrote:

>  As a note, the USGBC reviewer’s advice is in line with the requirements
> of Energy Star for detached buildings on a campus with shared parking: for
> separate buildings on a campus, the parking area (surface and/or garage)
> must be divided between the buildings when entered into Portfolio Manager.
> If this is a LEED 2009 project and the owner plans to comply with the 5-year
> metering requirement via Energy Star, setting up the model in that manner
> will make it consistent with the mandatory minimum M&V requirements.  I’m
> not sure what led to the decision to model each building in a separate PD2
> file (other than scheduling of the design work meaning Building 4’s model
> won’t be needed for some time after Building 1’s model is done), but it
> might provide some benefit to model the campus in one file.  I would think
> this would be true in 2 specific cases:
>
> -        If there is a single meter covering all campus electrical use
> (not uncommon for campuses), allowing the model to calculate a coincident
> demand for cost purposes that might be lower than the sum of the demands for
> the four separate model
>
> -        Credit for daylighting is being pursued and there is a potential
> for one of the buildings to shade another, making the combined model file
> more conservative on energy savings from daylighting than the four
> individual models
>
>
>
> I have done a split PD2 file approach on a model before and while it made
> sense when it was setup and the project was small (10K SF total), responding
> to comments was more difficult.  For example, if there was some error in the
> baseline U-Value then each model file would have to be corrected
> individually instead of changing the wall type in a single model (4 changes
> instead of 1).  Just some thoughts to consider.
>
>
>
> I would partially agree with the reviewer, though – the parking garage
> needs to be part of the model and with a split model you would have to put
> the parking garage into each of the four models.  I probably would have
> taken a slightly different approach, though – If the campus is not modeled
> in a single model, the parking garage should be modeled on its own, with the
> resulting energy divided between the four models proportionate to the number
> of spaces allocated to each building or the proposed occupancy of each
> building, since those are the factors that determine how much of the garage
> each building would use.
>
>
>
> *JEREMY R. POLING, PE, LEED AP*
> Associate Vice President,
>
> Senior Sustainability Analyst
> Strategic Services
> *Site Solutions | Operations | Sustainability*
>
> *EPSTEIN*
> Architecture
> Interiors
> Engineering
> Construction
>
> **
>
> *Epstein is a firm believer in sustainability. We ask that you please
> consider the environment before printing this e-mail.*
>
>
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Walson, Kristy
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 05, 2010 8:21 AM
> *To:* 'Pasha Korber-Gonzalez'; eQUEST Users List
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] LEED-parking garage question/advice needed
>
>
>
> Hi Pasha,
>
>
>
> Having modeled a few parking garages in various software at this point, I
> also do not agree with the LEED representative's suggestion.  In my
> experience, parking garages typically have daylighting controls to turn off
> perimeter lights during the day.  This would be tough for a simulation
> program to model without creating a separate building for the parking
> garage.  I know you said that the parking garage would not be utilizing any
> ECM's, but I like to leave my options open in case an owner comes back and
> decides that the payback is well worth the money spent up-front for
> controls.
>
>
>
> If you end up incorporating the lighting as a bulk load on the electrical
> meter at each building, just remember that you'll need 2 bulk loads - one
> for daytime garage lighting and one for night time exterior lighting.  If
> you're sure they won't be adding ECM's at a later date, then I think the
> bulk load idea will work.  Just be sure to spend some time on your lighting
> schedule because the lighting savings seen between the baseline and proposed
> models for a parking garage can be significant and you don't want to lose
> any of this benefit.  Good luck!
>
>
>
> *Kristy Walson, PE, LEED AP*
>
> *Mechanical Engineer / Sustainable Design*
>
>
>
> *From:* equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
> equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Pasha
> Korber-Gonzalez
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 05, 2010 9:13 AM
> *To:* eQUEST Users List
> *Subject:* [Equest-users] LEED-parking garage question/advice needed
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I would like to get a few opinions from some fellow simulators on a
> modeling approach for a LEED project.   Please share your opinion/advice if
> you are interested.
>
> Project:    Four separate buildings that surround an open-air parking
> garage structure (all above grade.)--Location is Miami, FL
> Intent:    All Four buildings (as a whole project) are going for LEED
> certification.  Each building will be modeled in it's own .pd2 file as the
> simulator would prefer to manage the models in this manner versus using a
> campus modeling approach in a single .pd2 file.
>
> USGBC recommendations where that the parking garage should be divided (or
> split) into four pieces and 1/4 of the parking garage should be included
> with the buildings in each of the separate model files.
>
> The ISSUE is this:   My simulation gut instinct is telling me that this is
> a really bad way to include the energy use of a parking garage in a project
> model....(I was actually shocked that this was the advice from a LEED
> representative.)    So I am trying to advise my colleague that it might be
> better to not include the actual parking structure (i.e. separate shell) in
> each model, but to calculate the lighting use (on a schedule of operation)
> for the parking garage lighting and then simply add in that energy as a kW
> input on a separate meter and assign a ltg operating schedule to it.    With
> this approach it would be easier to take the advice of the LEED folks and
> input 1/4 of the installed kW in each of the separate model files, rather
> than wasting time with building in (& managing) another shell in each model
> file.   (FYI-there are no other ECM's that will be accounted for in the
> parking garage.)
>
>
> What do you think of this approach?   Do you think that it is significant
> and important to include the "physical" presence of the parking garage in
> each of the model files?   What approach would you take?
>
> Thanks for your time as always...
>
> Pasha :)
>
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