Thanks Jeremy,<br><br>I wasn't aware of the 5-year metering requirement for Energy Star...that does help me 'accept' the advice for the model a bit more. However, it still doesn't sit right with me to split a buiding amongst several model files for the same reason that you mentioned about disproportionate sim results.<br>
<br>I liked your observations for the finished model--thanks for sharing your experience on that. I also like the idea of doing a separate model for the garage itself with the approach of keeping all the models in separate files, but I think I will have to reconsider the multi-files approach versus inputting all 5 structures into one model file. hmmmm......<br>
<br>pkg<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 9:53 AM, Jeremy Poling <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jpoling@epsteinglobal.com">jpoling@epsteinglobal.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">As a note, the USGBC reviewer’s advice is in line with the
requirements of Energy Star for detached buildings on a campus with shared
parking: for separate buildings on a campus, the parking area (surface and/or
garage) must be divided between the buildings when entered into Portfolio
Manager. If this is a LEED 2009 project and the owner plans to comply
with the 5-year metering requirement via Energy Star, setting up the model in
that manner will make it consistent with the mandatory minimum M&V
requirements. I’m not sure what led to the decision to model each
building in a separate PD2 file (other than scheduling of the design work
meaning Building 4’s model won’t be needed for some time after
Building 1’s model is done), but it might provide some benefit to model
the campus in one file. I would think this would be true in 2 specific
cases:</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 38.25pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Symbol; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span>-<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">If there is a single meter covering all campus electrical use (not
uncommon for campuses), allowing the model to calculate a coincident demand for
cost purposes that might be lower than the sum of the demands for the four
separate model</span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 38.25pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Symbol; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span>-<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Credit for daylighting is being pursued and there is a potential
for one of the buildings to shade another, making the combined model file more conservative
on energy savings from daylighting than the four individual models</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I have done a split PD2 file approach on a model before and
while it made sense when it was setup and the project was small (10K SF total),
responding to comments was more difficult. For example, if there was some
error in the baseline U-Value then each model file would have to be corrected
individually instead of changing the wall type in a single model (4 changes
instead of 1). Just some thoughts to consider.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I would partially agree with the reviewer, though – the
parking garage needs to be part of the model and with a split model you would
have to put the parking garage into each of the four models. I probably
would have taken a slightly different approach, though – If the campus is
not modeled in a single model, the parking garage should be modeled on its own,
with the resulting energy divided between the four models proportionate to the
number of spaces allocated to each building or the proposed occupancy of each
building, since those are the factors that determine how much of the garage
each building would use.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(199, 91, 18);">JEREMY R. POLING, PE, LEED AP</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br>
</span><span style="font-size: 8pt; color: gray;">Associate Vice President,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 8pt; color: gray;">Senior Sustainability Analyst<br>
Strategic Services<br>
<i>Site Solutions | Operations | Sustainability</i></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br>
<br>
</span><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(199, 91, 18);">EPSTEIN</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br>
</span><span style="font-size: 8pt; color: gray;">Architecture<br>
Interiors<br>
Engineering<br>
Construction</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br>
<br>
</span><b><i><span style="font-size: 8pt; color: green;"></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-size: 8pt; color: green;">Epstein is a firm believer in sustainability. We ask that you
please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.</span></i></b><span style="font-size: 8pt; color: gray;"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">
<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Walson,
Kristy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 05, 2010 8:21 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Pasha Korber-Gonzalez'; eQUEST Users List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Equest-users] LEED-parking garage question/advice needed</span></p>
</div>
</div><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi Pasha,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Having modeled a few parking garages in various software at this
point, I also do not agree with the LEED representative's suggestion. In
my experience, parking garages typically have daylighting controls to turn off
perimeter lights during the day. This would be tough for a simulation
program to model without creating a separate building for the parking
garage. I know you said that the parking garage would not be utilizing
any ECM's, but I like to leave my options open in case an owner comes back and
decides that the payback is well worth the money spent up-front for controls.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">If you end up incorporating the lighting as a bulk load on the
electrical meter at each building, just remember that you'll need 2 bulk loads
- one for daytime garage lighting and one for night time exterior
lighting. If you're sure they won't be adding ECM's at a later date, then
I think the bulk load idea will work. Just be sure to spend some time on
your lighting schedule because the lighting savings seen between the baseline
and proposed models for a parking garage can be significant and you don't want
to lose any of this benefit. Good luck!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Kristy Walson, PE, LEED AP</span></b><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">Mechanical Engineer / Sustainable Design</span></i><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">equest-users-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Pasha
Korber-Gonzalez<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 05, 2010 9:13 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> eQUEST Users List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Equest-users] LEED-parking garage question/advice needed</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi,<br>
<br>
I would like to get a few opinions from some fellow simulators on a modeling
approach for a LEED project. Please share your opinion/advice if
you are interested.<br>
<br>
Project: Four separate buildings that surround an open-air
parking garage structure (all above grade.)--Location is Miami, FL<br>
Intent: All Four buildings (as a whole project) are going for
LEED certification. Each building will be modeled in it's own .pd2 file
as the simulator would prefer to manage the models in this manner versus using
a campus modeling approach in a single .pd2 file.<br>
<br>
USGBC recommendations where that the parking garage should be divided (or
split) into four pieces and 1/4 of the parking garage should be included with
the buildings in each of the separate model files.<br>
<br>
The ISSUE is this: My simulation gut instinct is telling me that
this is a really bad way to include the energy use of a parking garage in a
project model....(I was actually shocked that this was the advice from a LEED
representative.) So I am trying to advise my colleague that
it might be better to not include the actual parking structure (i.e. separate
shell) in each model, but to calculate the lighting use (on a schedule of
operation) for the parking garage lighting and then simply add in that energy
as a kW input on a separate meter and assign a ltg operating schedule to
it. With this approach it would be easier to take the advice
of the LEED folks and input 1/4 of the installed kW in each of the separate
model files, rather than wasting time with building in (& managing) another
shell in each model file. (FYI-there are no other ECM's that will
be accounted for in the parking garage.)<br>
<br>
<br>
What do you think of this approach? Do you think that it is
significant and important to include the "physical" presence of the
parking garage in each of the model files? What approach would you
take?<br>
<br>
Thanks for your time as always...<br>
<br>
Pasha :)</p>
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