[Equest-users] fire station modeling

[Jeremy Poling]

Also, see the note at the bottom of Table G3.1.1A: "Where attributes
make a building eligible for more than one baseline system type, use the
predominant condition to determine the system type for the entire
building."  The USGBC/GBCI and ASHRAE have both ruled that the
predominant condition is determined by which type has the largest
percentage of the total area.

I would recommend contacting the reviewers either through LEED-Online or
through the GBCI "Contact us" page (select the topic "Questions about
Review Comments") if you can show with area calculations that the
percentage of the residential quarters at the station is less than the
other functions.  The reviewers will probably count the vehicle bays as
part of the residential so I would do the same just to limit the
back-and-forth.

Jeremy R. Poling, PE, LEED AP+BDC

-----Original Message-----
From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Cam
Fitzgerald
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 10:07 AM
To: Patrick J. O'Leary, Jr.; equest-users;
bldg-sim-subscribe at onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] fire station modeling

Patrick,

If you look in Section 3.2 of 90.1-2004, the definition for
"residential" lists fire stations as the last example of residential
space types. Hope this helps.

Cam Fitzgerald

-----Original Message-----
From: equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of Patrick
J. O'Leary, Jr.
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 8:51 AM
To: equest-users; bldg-sim-subscribe at onebuilding.org
Subject: [Equest-users] fire station modeling

has anyone received a comment on eac1 requiring the use of residential 
ptac systems in the baseline building when modeling fire stations?  i 
have seen the following comments on two fire station projects recently 
with no further background material concerning the source of the 
residential determination from the reviewers than the statements below.

this, to me, is not what previous usgbc cirs, 90.1 (2004 or 2007), or 
the 90.1 user's manual say.   per 90.1 and the previous usgbc cirs the 
predominant use of the building, based on sf and number of stories, 
determine what type of systems are used.  for a building less than 
20,000 sf this is typically going to be packaged gas or heat pump units.

project 1 (leed v2.2 project)
"The Baseline system type modeled does not seem consistent with the 
system mapping from Table G.3.1.1.A. Please note the GBCI has determined

that Fire Stations are considered residential for the purposes of 
completing EAc1 credit.  Please confirm that the Baseline system (and 
principle heating source) was modeled correctly, or revise the system 
type to reflect ASHRAE modeling protocol. Also, if any exceptions are 
utilized from G3.1.1 please provide a explanation for the exception."

project 2 (leed v2.2 project)
"5. Table 1.4 indicates the Baseline Primary HVAC system as a type #3, 
which does not appear to be consistent with the system mapping from 
Table G.3.1.1.A. The sleeping quarters (residential) should be modeled 
as a system type #1 and the non-residential areas as a type #3. Please 
provide a narrative confirming that the Baseline model sleeping quarters

have been modeled using System #1, Constant Volume PTAC, with DX 
cooling, and Fossil Fuel boiler. The narrative shall also include size 
of equipment modeled within the Baseline model. Revise Baseline Unitary 
Equipment Cooling and Boiler parameters to match Tables 6.8.1A and 
6.8.1E of ASHRAE 90.1-2004 and include Proposed Unitary Equipment 
Cooling and size of the boilers. Please revise the Baseline and Proposed

models, and update the Template, and supporting documentation as 
required. Please confirm that the parameters defined in section G3.1.3.2

through G3.1.2.5 have been modeled, and that the mandatory requirements 
of Section 6.4 have been adhered to. Please add sufficient information 
to Table 1.4 to confirm that the Baseline boiler systems were modeled in

accordance with these requirements"

the usgbc cir & 90.1 references:

1.  USGBC Advanced Energy Modeling for LEED (page 17) - Table 2.2, CIR 
dated 8/26/2008 and 4/23/2008. "Clarifies how to determine baseline HVAC

system(s) for building eligible for more than one system type."
-"CIR dated 8/26/2008 states that for projects with multiple uses in the

same building, predominant condition as determined by total floor area 
should determine system type for entire building.  Ruling references 
note following Table G3.1.1A in ASHRAE 90.1-2004:  Where attributes make

a building eligible for more than one baseline system type, use the 
predominant condition to determine the system type for the entire
building."
-"CIR dated 4/23/2008 confirms that when conditions do not vary per 
exceptions to G3.1.1, project teams must use single baseline system type

for entire building.  HOwever, if project includes multiple detached 
buildings, each building can use different system type; this is 
addressed in Chapter 4 of document."

2.  90.1-2004 Table G3.1.1A Note 3 - "Where attributes make a building 
eligible for more than one baseline system type, use the predominant 
condition to determine the system type for the entire building."

3.  90.1-2004 Section G3.1.1 Exception (a) - "Use additional system 
type(s) for non-predominant conditions (i.e. residential/nonresidential 
or heating source) if those conditions apply to more than 20,000 sf of 
conditioned floor area." (Note the fire stations in the two projects 
with the comments above are each less than 14,000 sf of conditioned 
floor area.)

4.  90.1-2004 User's Manual - "The scope of Standard 90.1, in terms of 
residential spaces, applies just to spaces with four or more stories, so

low-rise residential is excluded."

regards,
patrick
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