[Bldg-sim] [Equest-users] Should onebuilding.org mailing lists transition to Discourse?

Karen Walkerman kwalkerman at gmail.com
Fri Dec 11 01:40:02 PST 2020


I think that Nick makes some really good points. Ease of use is a big
barrier.

Has anyone on here been using the Unmet Hours Slack?

I leaned heavily on the Bldg-Sim email lists when I was beginning, and I
spent a few years responding and contributing heavily responding to others
as a way to give back.

I have not been using any of the platforms very much in the last few years
for a few reasons:

1. I am working entirely in EnergyPlus with a custom user-interface. Most
questions both here and on Unmet-hours are about other software or
platforms that I don't currently use.

2. These days, if I have an issue that I can't resolve on my own, by the
time I've written about it clearly enough to post... I've either solved my
issue or discovered a bug in the software. While writing down an issue and
clearly communicating it is a good way to work through my process, it's
quite lonely.

As someone who's been working remotely from home for a long time, the thing
I struggle the most with is a lack of community around work. What I would
benefit from the most with this community would be a semi-regular spitball
session with other experienced modelers. Maybe enter the brave new world of
Zoom.

If others are interested, I'd be happy to create a separate thread &
organize a session.

Be well,

Karen




On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 9:47 AM Nicholas Caton via Bldg-sim <
bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org> wrote:

> I was personally involved with that “wiki” effort, and I am glad you
> reminded me Anthony.  “Lessons learned” with that experience may be helpful
> to collect for Jason while considering options for this transition, if
> anyone else has any memories from that experiment.
>
>
>
> I recall (years later, mind) that the wiki was not intended to *replace*,
> but rather to *augment/supplement* the mailing lists.  The function of
> the wiki was to create a better place to archive/publish specific sorts of
> threads/content involving lots of imagery.  Icing on the cake would have
> been the capability to allow for collaborative
> contributions/editing/cross-linking/tagging, so that these articles/guides
> could benefit from many perspectives and grow to become a more
> useful/accessible archive of information over time.
>
>
>
> At that time, I was a little more active in generating step by step guides
> (that I would later reference and re-send into the lists as topics
> resurfaced) with lots of deliberate text formatting (color, indents,
> bullets, etc.) & imagery to help others pick up on a procedure or
> process/feature.  A shortcoming of the mailing list archives (then and now)
> is that text formatting typically ends up totally stripped, and images
> would be un-inserted and retained (if at all) as a series of cryptically
> named attachments instead of in-line with the text, as originally
> composed.  The wiki looked like a worthy experiment to circumvent that set
> of archival issues, and better capture that sort of material for easier
> access and retention.
>
>
>
> The wiki effort kinda fizzled in large part (I think) because a wiki-based
> platform requires of the target audience/community: (1) a small but
> meaningful increase in effort/time to access/search for information,
> relative to the fully automated mailing list option that brings the content
> to you, and (2) for contributors, a LOT more time/effort (relative to
> emails) to contribute and deal with formatting/tagging/etc.  A minor
> contributing factor may have also been “contributor fragmentation” as
> around the same time period IBPSA was trying to launch a wiki effort with
> similar goals (I do not recall exactly what extent these efforts overlapped
> on a timeline).  Either initiative might have seen a lot more immediate
> growth/success all the involved contributing parties were consolidated into
> one effort.
>
>
>
> I think a wiki may remain an ideal format for something like the doe-2
> reference/engineering manual, or similar large bodies of relatively static
> work that could benefit from infrequent & disparate (but peer-reviewed)
> edits/additions from time to time.
>
>
>
>
>
> As it stands, we can all recognize active contribution/participation on
> the mailings lists remains a high hurdle for the community at large.  I
> think the main hurdles preventing more active contribution from the
> community include:
>
>    - Participation takes time/effort out of the day.  It’s hard for most
>    with jobs including energy simulation to justify fitting something like
>    emailing strangers a priority.  A new platform should place ease of
>    accessibility (reading and contributions) as a penultimate priority.
>    Access to read/contribute/search should ideally require a few clicks as
>    possible.
>    - Ego – I think a lot of engineers suffer a mental hurdle in asking
>    questions or responding in a public forum.  It’s a tall order in some work
>    environments/cultures to open up and admit “I don’t know something,”
>    especially in a public forum where your admission ends up “on the record.”
>    As a younger engineer especially I would get really hung up on this, until
>    I figured out the people asking the most questions were often the smartest
>    ones in the room.  A new platform *might* pick up a few more
>    questions, especially from new and intermediate modelers, if it’s easy to
>    submit queries in an anonymous fashion?
>    - Propriety – It can be hard to ask a question sometimes (and
>    especially attach a model) when the nature of the post/question can result
>    in a clear line of identification to an active project, customer, or
>    company.  The same concerns can make it difficult to share a working
>    example/solution when you see someone ask for something at your
>    fingertips.  We all want to be good stewards of potentially sensitive
>    information.  It would be neat if a new platform could offer solutions to
>    make it easier to ask questions anonymously, perhaps someday including
>    scripts and/or guides to “anonymize” project files to make it easier to
>    upload with confidence.
>
>
>
>
>
> ~Nick
>
>
>
> *Nick Caton, P.E. (US), BEMP*
>
> *ニック* *ケートン**, P.E. (US), BEMP*
>
> Senior Energy Engineer
> Energy Manager, Yokota Airbase
>
> ESS - Energy & Sustainability Services
>
> M JP
> M US
> Email
>
> +81 . 070 . 3366 . 3317
>
> +1   . 785 .  410  . 3317
>
> nicholas.caton at se.com
>
> シニアエネルギーエンジニア
> 横田基地エネルギーマネージャー
> ESS - エナジー持続可能性サービス
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Equest-users <equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org> *On
> Behalf Of *Anthony Hardman via Equest-users
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 10, 2020 3:58 AM
> *To:* Jason Glazer <jglazer at gard.com>; bldg-sim at onebuilding.org;
> equest-users at onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Equest-users] Should onebuilding.org mailing lists
> transition to Discourse?
>
>
>
> [External email: Use caution with links and attachments]
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> I love the idea of transitioning to a more modern platform.  I like the
> job board idea Nick mentioned.  Search & attachment functionality is a big
> deal and I would also hope that the archives could get transferred, but
> even if they can’t, I wouldn’t consider it a reason to stick with status
> quo.  I’ve found the existing search functionality to be clunky at best as
> I often can’t find threads that I know to exist, which has forced me to
> save the ones I deem important directly to my own outlook (not ideal).
>
>
>
> I recall an energy simulation “wiki” idea gaining some traction years ago
> which I think is less preferable than a modern forum.  If we’re comparing
> resources, I think unmethours has the best platform and functionality from
> a user perspective, followed by energy-models.com.
>
>
>
> Having said all that, I also love the community here and am tremendously
> grateful for all the work and effort behind the onebuilding lists.
>
>
>
> Anthony Hardman, PE, BEAP, LEED AP BD+C
>
> Senior Building Performance Analyst, Owner
>
> The Green Engineer
>
> Sustainable Design Consulting
>
> 23 Bradford Street, 1st Floor, Concord, MA 01742
>
> Direct: 978.341.5459  |  Office: 978.369.8978
>
> E: anthony at greenengineer.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Jason Glazer [mailto:jglazer at gard.com <jglazer at gard.com>]
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 3, 2020 11:45 AM
> *To:* bldg-sim at onebuilding.org; equest-users at onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* [Equest-users] Should onebuilding.org mailing lists transition
> to Discourse?
>
>
>
> BLDG-SIM and eQUEST-users
>
> Sorry for the cross posting but this is a "meta" issue that I would like
> feedback on.
>
> As you may know, I've been running the BLDG-SIM for over 20 years and
> eQUEST-users for 12 years as well as other mailing lists on onebuilding.
> org
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fonebuilding.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7CNicholas.Caton%40se.com%7C3df4e8473f8144e9645c08d89c7470f7%7C6e51e1adc54b4b39b5980ffe9ae68fef%7C0%7C0%7C637431371211426155%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=T4LS7EghlkpHlzQIZacTxOKS3an3FRVL2ibk%2FHypSxE%3D&reserved=0>.
> While the number of modelers has greatly increased over the years, the
> community that participates in these mailing lists has not. I believe part
> of that reason is that mailing lists are not very attractive to younger
> modelers. I would like to revitalize the sense of community that I have
> always seen in modelers by changing BLDG-SIM and eQUEST-users as well as
> some of the other onebuilding.org mailing lists to a web and phone
> enabled forum called Discourse:
>
> https://www.discourse.org/
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.discourse.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7CNicholas.Caton%40se.com%7C3df4e8473f8144e9645c08d89c7470f7%7C6e51e1adc54b4b39b5980ffe9ae68fef%7C0%7C0%7C637431371211426155%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=eiMEXNPcHIEFWOST5Fzb3col5j0A2CxNuAUEXJbMHEU%3D&reserved=0>
>
> One nice thing about this type of forum is that for those used to a
> mailing list, they can continue interacting just like a mailing list but
> those more comfortable using a web-based or phone-based forum can
> participate also.
>
> Example of the web/phone interface can be seen at:
>
>    https://meta.discourse.org/
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.discourse.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7CNicholas.Caton%40se.com%7C3df4e8473f8144e9645c08d89c7470f7%7C6e51e1adc54b4b39b5980ffe9ae68fef%7C0%7C0%7C637431371211436148%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=7pbHm1KOw5O465pweAkN98QvWLK0a7GCfp43cTau5Bw%3D&reserved=0>
>
>    https://forum.golangbridge.org/
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.golangbridge.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7CNicholas.Caton%40se.com%7C3df4e8473f8144e9645c08d89c7470f7%7C6e51e1adc54b4b39b5980ffe9ae68fef%7C0%7C0%7C637431371211436148%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=oPNcP%2BRB65FIY19V8hpOzyr33Ng%2BEC%2FG%2BHHD8j8%2FRhA%3D&reserved=0>
>
>    https://discourse.julialang.org/
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdiscourse.julialang.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7CNicholas.Caton%40se.com%7C3df4e8473f8144e9645c08d89c7470f7%7C6e51e1adc54b4b39b5980ffe9ae68fef%7C0%7C0%7C637431371211446143%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=YTWwiGZysUYJizTKdjnnN4i3L%2FcBZWZ0Jv70Ro2HP3E%3D&reserved=0>
>
>    https://discuss.atom.io/
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdiscuss.atom.io%2F&data=04%7C01%7CNicholas.Caton%40se.com%7C3df4e8473f8144e9645c08d89c7470f7%7C6e51e1adc54b4b39b5980ffe9ae68fef%7C0%7C0%7C637431371211456139%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=R4FsgIGG57S5wNLE177bZgxTfk%2Fh8ItQb1yi1RzTbjk%3D&reserved=0>
>
> I'm thinking it would be a single Discourse forum but with categories that
> correspond to the existing mailing lists and perhaps some other categories.
> It would probably live at:
>
>     forum.onebuilding.org
>
> or something like that.
>
> The reason I'm bringing this up today is that I also help manage the
> energyplus_support list hosted on Yahoo and on December 15, Yahoo is going
> to shut down all of its mailing lists and one of the transition options
> would be the same Discourse forum.
>
> I know that unmethours.com has become a valuable resource to the
> community for questions and answers but I believe that a forum for
> discussion and announcements will continue to be important. Announcements
> for jobs, training, events, etc.. as well as discussion that does not fit
> in the question and answer format continue to occur.
>
> Please let me know what you think and if you think that BLDG-SIM and
> eQUEST-users as well as the other public mailing lists on onebuilding.org
> should transition to a Discourse forum.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jason
>
>
>
> --
>
> Jason Glazer, P.E., BEMP, GARD Analytics, 90.1 ECB chair
>
> Admin for onebuilding.org building performance mailing lists
>
>
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