[Bldg-sim] building indoor temperature and humidity prediction

Wed Mar 7 05:23:51 PST 2018

Thank you for the information.

Le 7 mars 2018 12:55, "David Cocking" <David.Cocking at designbuilder.co.uk> a
écrit :

> Hi Ibrahim,
>
>
>
> I don’t think I saw which modeling software you are currently using but
> you may be interested to know that EnergyPlus is able to do hygrothermal
> analysis, although the learning curve (a factor mentioned by Nick) with
> EnergyPlus may be no better than WUFI if you are not already familiar with
> it. DesignBuilder (which is an easy-to-use interface to the EnergyPlus
> engine) implemented the EnergyPlus HAMT method (and EMPD for simpler
> analysis) a while back and I understand that this can give very similar
> results to WUFI.
>
>
>
> I believe the main difference is that WUFI allows a higher “resolution” so
> the results are slightly more accurate when using the higher resolution in
> WUFI. Given all the other variables in a whole-building energy/comfort
> model my understanding is that the difference between the two results sets
> is negligible, however, if you are trying to get a perfect correlation
> between the material (under lab conditions for example) and the simulation
> results you’d probably need WUFI.
>
>
>
> You can find more information on DesignBuilder’s HAMT capabilities here:
> http://www.designbuilder.co.uk/helpv5.2/#MoistureTransferComponent.htm?
> Highlight=hamt
>
>
>
> I hope that helps,
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> *David Cocking MSc CEng MCIBSE MASHRAE*
>
> Director *I* Tel: +44 (0)1453 755500 <+44%201453%20755500> *I*
> david.cocking at designbuilder.co.uk
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Nicholas Caton [mailto:Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com]
> *Sent:* 06 March 2018 19:13
> *To:* Davidson, Tom <TDavidson at DLBASSOCIATES.com>; 'Ibrahim NEYA' <
> ibrahim.neyapro at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Bldg-sim] building indoor temperature and humidity
> prediction
>
>
>
> WUFI is where I would head next also… but some cautionary advice to
> supplement:
>
>
>
> Tom is correct to suggest WUFI (or in generic terms of the top of my head
> “transient envelope dewpoint simulation”) is indeed a software/skillset
> that requires time investment to pick up and utilize with accuracy.  Before
> pursuing this (not-inexpensive) software and analysis skillset, I would
> generally advise strangers to first grow comfortable with executing the
> procedure and fully understanding the limitations of “normal”
> (steady-state) dewpoint analysis (re: Chapter 27 of 2009 ASHRAE
> Fundamentals).
>
>
>
> Expending the time/effort for something like a proper WUFI analysis should
> follow being able to confidently assert a steady-state analysis will not
> do. I used to provide envelope dewpoint analysis as an independent service
> to architects and MEP consultants, and while I could have used WUFI for
> every analysis it would have been overkill for most situations.
>
>
>
> All that said, Ibrahim if the only thing changing between the present and
> future state is the envelope construction, exterior weather conditions,
> and/or interior sensible/latent load profiles…  then I think WUFI could be
> an appropriate software to pursue calibrating a model to your
> existing-state measurements (developing a latent and sensible load profile
> which responds similarly to the existing envelope and measurement period
> weather), and then using the calibrated WUFI model to predict interior
> conditions under different envelope, exterior weather conditions, or
> interior load profiles.
>
>
>
> Best of luck!
>
>
>
> ~Nick
>
>
>
>
>
> *Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP*
>
>   Senior Energy Engineer
>   Regional Energy Engineering Manager
>
>   Energy and Sustainability Services
>   Schneider Electric
>
> D  913.564.6361 <(913)%20564-6361>
> M  785.410.3317 <(785)%20410-3317>
> F  913.564.6380 <(913)%20564-6380>
> E  nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com
>
> 15200 Santa Fe Trail Drive
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=15200+Santa+Fe+Trail+Drive+%0D%0ASuite+204+%0D%0ALenexa,+KS+66219+%0D%0AUnited+States&entry=gmail&source=g>
> Suite 204
> Lenexa, KS 66219
> United States
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Davidson, Tom [mailto:TDavidson at DLBASSOCIATES.com
> <TDavidson at DLBASSOCIATES.com>]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 06, 2018 7:08 AM
> *To:* 'Ibrahim NEYA' <ibrahim.neyapro at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org; Nicholas Caton <
> Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com>
> *Subject:* RE: [Bldg-sim] building indoor temperature and humidity
> prediction
>
>
>
> Ibrahim,
>
>
>
> You might want to look at WUFI or WUFI Passive. Links are below:
>
>
>
> https://wufi.de/en/
>
>
>
> http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/wufi-
> driving-me-crazy
>
>
>
> http://www.phius.org/software-resources/wufi-passive-and-
> other-modeling-tools/wufi-passive-3-0
>
>
>
> Based on the second link, it looks like training is an essential component
> of using this software properly.
>
>
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Ibrahim NEYA [mailto:ibrahim.neyapro at gmail.com
> <ibrahim.neyapro at gmail.com>]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 06, 2018 2:49 AM
> *To:* Davidson, Tom
> *Cc:* bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org; Nicholas Caton
> *Subject:* Re: [Bldg-sim] building indoor temperature and humidity
> prediction
>
>
>
> Hi everybody,
>
> Thank you for your answers.
>
> To be more specific, I would like to
> *predict the indoor temperature and humidity when I know the ootdoor
> climate and the building enveloppe materials*. For that, I want to know
> if there is a tool/software/algorithm able to do this work.
>
> I have already measured on-site indoor temperature and humidity.
>
> Thank you for your help
>
> Regards
>
>
>
>
>
> 2018-03-05 21:47 GMT+00:00 Davidson, Tom <TDavidson at dlbassociates.com>:
>
> Ibrahim,
>
>
>
> Every building is obviously quite different, but I was involved with
> logging indoor and outdoor humidity levels in a new near-passive residence
> recently, and am posting the results as an image (assuming that an image
> can be posted here). There was an extremely high correlation between
> average indoor and outdoor humidity levels in the month of Dec 2017 (look
> at slopes of the two values, which are both absolute humidity levels).
> There is significantly less variability in the indoor levels than the
> outdoor levels. I guess this speaks to the ability of indoor components to
> absorb moisture and provide a dampening effect on the outdoor humidity
> variations.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thomas A. Davidson, PE
>
> *DLB Associates*  |  265
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>
>
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>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Nicholas Caton [mailto:Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, March 05, 2018 1:25 PM
> *To:* Ibrahim NEYA
> *Cc:* bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Bldg-sim] building indoor temperature and humidity
> prediction
>
>
>
> Hello Ibrahim,
>
>
>
> If it’s an existing/built building, you’ll want to acquire a quantity of
> these to measure directly:  http://www.onsetcomp.com/
> products/data-loggers/ux100-003.  Very useful for objectively quantifying
> occupant comfort issues and operation/malfunctions of building or
> space-level humidity controls, which can then support energy savings/costs
> associated with correcting those kinds of issues.
>
>
>
> If it’s a new building or else only on paper at the moment, any number of
> energy simulation software can report temperature and RH of airstreams at a
> system or zonal resolution.  eQuest/doe2 is among them, however I’m
> inclined to suggest/request you to be more specific about your purpose and
> end-goals, supplemented with any existing building simulation
> experience/skillsets.  eQuest comes with a definite learning curve before
> it’s outputs can be leveraged with confidence, and there might be software
> more purpose-built options appropriate to your task(s) at hand that I or
> others could suggest.
>
>
>
> ~Nick
>
>
>
>
>
> *Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP*
>
>   Senior Energy Engineer
>   Regional Energy Engineering Manager
>
>   Energy and Sustainability Services
>   Schneider Electric
>
> D  913.564.6361 <(913)%20564-6361>
> M  785.410.3317 <(785)%20410-3317>
> F  913.564.6380 <(913)%20564-6380>
> E  nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com
>
> 15200 Santa Fe Trail Drive
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=15200+Santa+Fe+Trail+Drive+%0D%0ASuite+204+%0D%0ALenexa,+KS+66219+%0D%0AUnited+States&entry=gmail&source=g>
> Suite 204
> Lenexa, KS 66219
> United States
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Bldg-sim [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
> <bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org>] *On Behalf Of *Ibrahim NEYA via
> Bldg-sim
> *Sent:* Monday, March 05, 2018 11:47 AM
> *To:* bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
> *Subject:* [Bldg-sim] building indoor temperature and humidity prediction
>
>
>
> Hi everybody,
>
> Please, could someone help me to find a software that can predict the
> indoor temperature and humidity of a building?
>
> Thank you very much for your help
>
> Regards
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> NEYA Ibrahim
>
> Ingénieur en Génie Electrique et Énergétique
>
>
>
> Tél : 00226 61 85 77 07
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> NEYA Ibrahim
>
> Ingénieur en Génie Electrique et Énergétique
>
>
>
> Tél : 00226 61 85 77 07
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
> ______________________________________________________________________
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