[Bldg-sim] 8760 Load Profiles

Wed Jun 21 08:25:32 PDT 2017

I like calibrating to whatever you can get. If you are talking about
aggregate loadshapes, like I'm usually working with when consulting with
utilities, then calibrating to whole facility data can be quite
enlightening. In general, an average of existing real building loads looks
a lot different than the output you might get from the prototypes. After
you mess with schedules (keep your calibration loose), then the resulting
profiles can be quite a bit better. The primary difference that we see is
that real buildings use a lot more electricity at night and on weekends
than their prototypes suggest. Yes, you are guessing which end uses are
off, but if you have hourly data across multiple seasons and types of
weather, then you should be able to make some good guesses that would
represent improvements on the prototypes. Don't overdo it. You still don't
know very much.

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Jim Dirkes via Bldg-sim <
bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org> wrote:

> Dear Coles,
> Quoting Dru Crawley (who got it elsewhere) "All models are wrong, but some
> are useful".  That applies doubly to instances where you want to match
> metered data with modeled data.
>
> As I participate in both the modeling and commissioning arenas, I'm keenly
> aware of the (literally) hundreds of ways a building can operate
> differently than imagined by the modeler (or DOE's reference models).
> Differences are often major!
>
> The scenario you describe appears to be what a statistician would describe
> as "under-constrained" - you probably don't know enough details about
> actual operation to understand which of several low RSME calibration
> solutions are correct. :(
>
> At the risk of blathering on too long, I think your project places you on
> the leading edge of energy practice and research; good luck!
>
> p.s., there are some nifty software tools which promise effective analysis
> of buildings with BMS'. Among them are SkySpark
> <https://skyfoundry.com/skyspark/>and a few others, with newcomer
> BuildPulse <http://www.buildpulse.com/>. Their approach is to apply FDD
> rule sets and identify operational problems.
> Another nifty tool is the (totally) wire-free CT sensors from Panoramic
> Power <http://www.panpwr.com/>, which we've used for sub-metering complex
> facilities.
>
> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 10:29 AM, Jennings, Coles via Bldg-sim <
> bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org> wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>>
>>
>> I’ve gotten some great responses, both privately and on the public
>> thread. I really appreciate the feedback from the group. The consensus
>> definitely appears to be to use the DoE prototype buildings to create
>> sample load profiles. For those that are not already aware, I located this
>> database, which includes both commercial and residential 8,760 load
>> profiles, broken out by end-use:
>>
>>
>>
>> http://en.openei.org/datasets/dataset/commercial-and-residen
>> tial-hourly-load-profiles-for-all-tmy3-locations-in-the-united-states
>>
>>
>>
>> The commercial profiles are based on the DoE prototypes and have been run
>> for just about every significant location in the US. Does anyone else have
>> experience with this database?
>>
>>
>>
>> My search continues for a repository of real, metered data to complement
>> the simulation data. Modeling is always my first tool in the toolkit as
>> well, but the more metered data I see coming back from our clients (which
>> can take a lot of begging to get), the more I realize that some of the
>> “typical” profiles from standard modeling guidelines are a little more
>> idealized than I used to think.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks to all,
>>
>> *Coles Jennings* PE, BEMP, LEED AP BD+C
>> Sr. Energy Engineer, Building Sciences Manager | Mason & Hanger
>> A Day & Zimmermann Company
>> *D *804.521.7045 <(804)%20521-7045> | *O *804.285.4171 <(804)%20285-4171> |
>> *F *804.217.8520 <(804)%20217-8520>
>> 4880 Sadler Road, Suite 300 | Glen Allen, VA 23060
>> Mason & Hanger <http://www.masonandhanger.com/>
>> *We do what we say.®*
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Dru Crawley [mailto:dbcrawley at gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 20, 2017 5:32 PM
>> *To:* Jennings, Coles <Coles.Jennings at MasonandHanger.com>
>> *Cc:* bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Bldg-sim] 8760 Load Profiles
>>
>>
>>
>> One option is to use the reference building models used to test
>> development of ASHRAE Standard 90.1 and output 8760 hour end-use data. The
>> models by themselves do not output the 8760 data but it is a minor tweak to
>> allow them to do that. 18 building types available in 16 climate zones.
>> https://www.energycodes.gov/development/commercial/prototype_models
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.energycodes.gov_development_commercial_prototype-5Fmodels&d=DwMFaQ&c=xB5UQg5qXm2axe_t44neldV-XNditz6D2ZXZLA0vHlE&r=JrIPsTq2z-_669uhqn51VqSZFL7dpX6NqxKBTKpeQZ9m5XksAJHnQhCI_rEcbMFG&m=cqRY1mJf56oxqepBYgWSPa-8S1fLmGwU3qsjkHWFRgQ&s=-18u1FuXkYX77l1jU7blP0wJRKPaaTqoJKDmMVwDwwA&e=>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Jennings, Coles via Bldg-sim <
>> bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>>
>>
>> We’re conducting a microgrid study for a campus-style facility and need
>> to be able to aggregate the hourly loads of the campus buildings (various
>> types and sizes) into a single load profile. I’m reaching out to gauge what
>> the best sources are for typical 8,760 building load profiles (free or
>> purchased). Ideally these would be broken out by end-use category, but
>> that’s not a strict requirement. At a minimum, I’d need the ability to pull
>> a unique profile based on building use type and climate zone.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> *Coles Jennings* PE, BEMP, LEED AP BD+C
>> Sr. Energy Engineer, Building Sciences Manager | Mason & Hanger
>> A Day & Zimmermann Company
>> *D *804.521.7045 <(804)%20521-7045> | *O *804.285.4171 <(804)%20285-4171> |
>> *F *804.217.8520 <(804)%20217-8520>
>> 4880 Sadler Road, Suite 300 | Glen Allen, VA 23060
>> Mason & Hanger <http://www.masonandhanger.com/>
>> *We do what we say.®*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bldg-sim mailing list
>> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.onebuilding.org_listinfo.cgi_bldg-2Dsim-2Donebuilding.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=xB5UQg5qXm2axe_t44neldV-XNditz6D2ZXZLA0vHlE&r=JrIPsTq2z-_669uhqn51VqSZFL7dpX6NqxKBTKpeQZ9m5XksAJHnQhCI_rEcbMFG&m=cqRY1mJf56oxqepBYgWSPa-8S1fLmGwU3qsjkHWFRgQ&s=RMcGtMTuwxvigw1zGi26O2IPksvGNCYnAzx3bj1BzVw&e=>
>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to
>> BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bldg-sim mailing list
>> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org
>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to
>> BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> James V Dirkes II, CEO/President
> The Building Performance Team Inc.
> 1631 Acacia Dr, GR, MI 49504
>
> (alphabet soup: PE, BEMP, BCxP, LEED AP)
>
> Direct / Mobile: 616.450.8653 <(616)%20450-8653>
> jim at buildingperformanceteam.com
>
> Website <http://buildingperformanceteam.com>l  LinkedIn
> <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jim-dirkes/7/444/413>
>
> *Coffee conversation:*… the minute one is labeled mean-spirited simply for raising an opposing view, debate is silenced. If we disqualify legitimate discussion, we compromise our ability to know the truth. We need to cultivate the ability to disagree civilly and not take opposition personally. We must also have the grace to allow our own views to be challenged with evidence and reasoning…
>
>
>
> .
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bldg-sim mailing list
> http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list send  a blank message to
> BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE at ONEBUILDING.ORG
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.onebuilding.org/pipermail/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org/attachments/20170621/377163d9/attachment-0001.html>