<div dir="ltr">I like calibrating to whatever you can get. If you are talking about aggregate loadshapes, like I'm usually working with when consulting with utilities, then calibrating to whole facility data can be quite enlightening. In general, an average of existing real building loads looks a lot different than the output you might get from the prototypes. After you mess with schedules (keep your calibration loose), then the resulting profiles can be quite a bit better. The primary difference that we see is that real buildings use a lot more electricity at night and on weekends than their prototypes suggest. Yes, you are guessing which end uses are off, but if you have hourly data across multiple seasons and types of weather, then you should be able to make some good guesses that would represent improvements on the prototypes. Don't overdo it. You still don't know very much. </div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Jim Dirkes via Bldg-sim <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;color:#0000ff">Dear Coles,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;color:#0000ff">Quoting Dru Crawley (who got it elsewhere) "All models are wrong, but some are useful". That applies doubly to instances where you want to match metered data with modeled data.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;color:#0000ff"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;color:#0000ff">As I participate in both the modeling and commissioning arenas, I'm keenly aware of the (literally) hundreds of ways a building can operate differently than imagined by the modeler (or DOE's reference models). Differences are often major!</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;color:#0000ff"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;color:#0000ff">The scenario you describe appears to be what a statistician would describe as "under-constrained" - you probably don't know enough details about actual operation to understand which of several low RSME calibration solutions are correct. :(</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;color:#0000ff"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;color:#0000ff">At the risk of blathering on too long, I think your project places you on the leading edge of energy practice and research; good luck!</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;color:#0000ff"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;color:#0000ff">p.s., there are some nifty software tools which promise effective analysis of buildings with BMS'. Among them are <a href="https://skyfoundry.com/skyspark/" target="_blank">SkySpark </a>and a few others, with newcomer <a href="http://www.buildpulse.com/" target="_blank">BuildPulse</a>. Their approach is to apply FDD rule sets and identify operational problems. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;color:#0000ff">Another nifty tool is the (totally) wire-free CT sensors from <a href="http://www.panpwr.com/" target="_blank">Panoramic Power</a>, which we've used for sub-metering complex facilities.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="h5"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 10:29 AM, Jennings, Coles via Bldg-sim <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.<wbr>org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div class="m_-4507386510414157905m_7252831267755281543WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hello all,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I’ve gotten some great responses, both privately and on the public thread. I really appreciate the feedback from the group. The consensus definitely appears to
be to use the DoE prototype buildings to create sample load profiles. For those that are not already aware, I located this database, which includes both commercial and residential 8,760 load profiles, broken out by end-use:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><a href="http://en.openei.org/datasets/dataset/commercial-and-residential-hourly-load-profiles-for-all-tmy3-locations-in-the-united-states" target="_blank">http://en.openei.org/datasets/<wbr>dataset/commercial-and-residen<wbr>tial-hourly-load-profiles-for-<wbr>all-tmy3-locations-in-the-<wbr>united-states</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">The commercial profiles are based on the DoE prototypes and have been run for just about every significant location in the US. Does anyone else have experience
with this database?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">My search continues for a repository of real, metered data to complement the simulation data. Modeling is always my first tool in the toolkit as well, but the
more metered data I see coming back from our clients (which can take a lot of begging to get), the more I realize that some of the “typical” profiles from standard modeling guidelines are a little more idealized than I used to think.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks to all,</span><span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
<br>
</span><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Coles Jennings</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> PE, BEMP, LEED AP BD+C
<br>
Sr. Energy Engineer, Building Sciences Manager </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#ba0c2f">|
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Mason & Hanger
<br>
A Day & Zimmermann Company <br>
<b>D </b><a href="tel:(804)%20521-7045" value="+18045217045" target="_blank">804.521.7045</a> </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#ba0c2f">|
</span><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">O
</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="tel:(804)%20285-4171" value="+18042854171" target="_blank">804.285.4171</a>
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#ba0c2f">|
</span><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">F
</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="tel:(804)%20217-8520" value="+18042178520" target="_blank">804.217.8520</a>
<br>
4880 Sadler Road, Suite 300 </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#ba0c2f">|
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Glen Allen, VA 23060
<br>
<a href="http://www.masonandhanger.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#224bf1;text-decoration:none">Mason & Hanger</span></a>
<br>
</span><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Adobe Garamond";color:#ba0c2f">We do what we say.®</span></i></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">
<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Dru Crawley [mailto:<a href="mailto:dbcrawley@gmail.com" target="_blank">dbcrawley@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 20, 2017 5:32 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jennings, Coles <Coles.Jennings@MasonandHanger<wbr>.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] 8760 Load Profiles<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div class="m_-4507386510414157905h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">One option is to use the reference building models used to test development of ASHRAE Standard 90.1 and output 8760 hour end-use data. The models by themselves do not output the 8760 data but it is a minor tweak to allow them to do that.
18 building types available in 16 climate zones. <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.energycodes.gov_development_commercial_prototype-5Fmodels&d=DwMFaQ&c=xB5UQg5qXm2axe_t44neldV-XNditz6D2ZXZLA0vHlE&r=JrIPsTq2z-_669uhqn51VqSZFL7dpX6NqxKBTKpeQZ9m5XksAJHnQhCI_rEcbMFG&m=cqRY1mJf56oxqepBYgWSPa-8S1fLmGwU3qsjkHWFRgQ&s=-18u1FuXkYX77l1jU7blP0wJRKPaaTqoJKDmMVwDwwA&e=" target="_blank">https://www.energycodes.gov/d<wbr>evelopment/commercial/prototyp<wbr>e_models</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Jennings, Coles via Bldg-sim <<a href="mailto:bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org" target="_blank">bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.or<wbr>g</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello all,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We’re conducting a microgrid study for a campus-style facility and need to be able to aggregate the hourly loads of the campus buildings (various types and sizes) into a single
load profile. I’m reaching out to gauge what the best sources are for typical 8,760 building load profiles (free or purchased). Ideally these would be broken out by end-use category, but that’s not a strict requirement. At a minimum, I’d need the ability to
pull a unique profile based on building use type and climate zone.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
<br>
</span><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Coles Jennings</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> PE, BEMP, LEED AP BD+C
<br>
Sr. Energy Engineer, Building Sciences Manager </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#ba0c2f">|
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Mason & Hanger
<br>
A Day & Zimmermann Company <br>
<b>D </b><a href="tel:(804)%20521-7045" target="_blank">804.521.7045</a> </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#ba0c2f">|
</span><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">O
</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="tel:(804)%20285-4171" target="_blank">804.285.4171</a>
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#ba0c2f">|
</span><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">F
</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="tel:(804)%20217-8520" target="_blank">804.217.8520</a>
<br>
4880 Sadler Road, Suite 300 </span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#ba0c2f">|
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Glen Allen, VA 23060
<br>
<a href="http://www.masonandhanger.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#224bf1;text-decoration:none">Mason & Hanger</span></a>
<br>
</span><b><i><span style="font-family:"Adobe Garamond";color:#ba0c2f">We do what we say.®</span></i></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">
<br>
<br>
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div></div></div>-- <br><div class="m_-4507386510414157905gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"></span></p>James V Dirkes II, CEO/President<br>The Building Performance Team Inc.<br>1631 Acacia Dr, GR, MI 49504</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">(alphabet soup: PE, BEMP, BCxP, LEED AP)<br><br>Direct / Mobile: <a href="tel:(616)%20450-8653" value="+16164508653" target="_blank">616.450.8653</a><br><a href="mailto:jim@buildingperformanceteam.com" target="_blank">jim@buildingperformanceteam.<wbr>com</a><br><br><a href="http://buildingperformanceteam.com" target="_blank">Website </a>l <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jim-dirkes/7/444/413" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a><p align="center" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center"><b><i><span style="font-size:14.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"MS Reference Sans Serif","sans-serif""> </span></i></b><span style="font-family:"MS Reference Sans Serif","sans-serif""></span></p><p style="vertical-align:middle">
</p><p style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="4" color="#0000ff"></font></span></p><pre style="white-space:pre-wrap"><p style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;text-autospace:none"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.3333px"><b>Coffee conversation:</b>
</span></font><span style="font-family:MyriadPro-Regular;font-size:10pt">… the minute one is labeled mean-spirited simply for raising </span><span style="font-family:MyriadPro-Regular;font-size:10pt">an opposing view, debate is silenced. If we disqualify legitimate discussion, </span><span style="font-family:MyriadPro-Regular;font-size:10pt">we compromise our ability to know the truth. We need to cultivate the ability </span><span style="font-family:MyriadPro-Regular;font-size:10pt">to disagree civilly and not take opposition personally. We must also have the </span><span style="font-family:MyriadPro-Regular;font-size:10pt">grace to allow our own views to be challenged with evidence and reasoning… </span></p><p style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;text-autospace:none">
</p><p style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;text-autospace:none">
<span style="font-size:13.3333px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">.</span></p></pre></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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