[Bldg-sim] climate zone Rome

Wed Feb 3 11:56:27 PST 2016

Francesco,

I just checked my SI version of 90.1 and in fact the Climate Zone for Rome
listed in Table B1-3 should be climate zone 3 not 4 based on the HDD and CDD
data listed in Table D-3 and the Climate Zone criteria listed in Table B
1-4.  

One suggestion would be to submit an informal request to ASHRAE 90.1
clarifying whether this is a mistake.  The committee can usually turn around
an informal interpretation very quickly and then you would be able to submit
to LEED with greater confidence using the correct Climate Zone.  

My gut says that GBCI would be reasonable in accepting the use of Climate
Zone 3 given that it is pretty clear this is an error in Table B1-3. 

Cheers,

Mike

Michael Tillou, PE, LEED AP BD+C, ASHRAE BEMP

Atelier Ten

T +1 (212) 254 4500 x208

From: Bldg-sim [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of
Joe Huang
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 2:33 PM
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: Re: [Bldg-sim] climate zone Rome

Following up on this question ("Why is Rome in ASHRAE Climate Zone 4 when
the weather files say it has less 1514 HDD ?),
I checked through various versions of ASHRAE 90.1 and Standard 169. Rome was
so listed as CZ 4 in Version 2004 (which I have) down through Version 2010
(which I don't have but trusting what Francesco said :-)), but as CZ 3A in
Version 2013. 

However, when I looked in the Table D-3 of Version 2004, it gives Rome as
having 2684 HDD65 (Fahrenheit), which converts to 1491 HDD10 (Celsius),
which is consistent with the 1541 HDD10 of the weather file that Francesco
is using  (there are always a few percentage point differences between the
long-term HDD and that from a typical year file). 

Therefore, my conclusion is that there's a mistake in ASHRAE 90.1-2010, and
my suggestion to Francesco is to base the reference building thermal
properties on Climate Zone 3A for ASHRAE 90.1-2013, or if you don't have a
copy, use Climate Zone 3A for ASHRAE 90.1-2010 and point out the error to
whoever judges your LEED application.  It should be a "no-brainer".

Joe

Joe Huang
White Box Technologies, Inc.
346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A
Moraga CA 94556
yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com <mailto:yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com> 
http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com for simulation-ready weather data
(o) (925)388-0265
(c) (510)928-2683
"building energy simulations at your fingertips"

On 2/3/2016 7:42 AM, Joe Huang wrote:

I beg to differ on this.  ASHRAE Climate Zones are very simply defined based
of degree days, plus what I consider a  faulty use of precipitation to
differentiate "wet" from "dry" climates.  When a EPW stat file gives the
ASHRAE Climate Zone as 3, it's simply reporting the number of degree days in
the file, and in that sense, absolutely correct.  The reason for the
discrepancy is that ASHRAE 90.1, or actually ASHRAE Standard 169 (Climate
Data for Building Design Standards), did their climate zone mapping, they
came up with a degree day value that put Rome in Climate Zone 4. The problem
in this case is that all 3 weather files for Rome that I've looked into
(IWEC, IWEC2, IGDG - the one  used by Francesco) show HDD from 1440 to 1514,
much below the 2000 HDD to fall into  Climate Zone 4. I have a good idea how
Standard 169 derived its degree days, but am waiting for confirmation lest I
misspeak.

In the meanwhile, I would also recommend using the climate zone shown in
90.1 to set the reference building, but only because that's what listed, not
because it's technically better.

Joe

Joe Huang
White Box Technologies, Inc.
346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A
Moraga CA 94556
yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com <mailto:yjhuang at whiteboxtechnologies.com> 
http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com for simulation-ready weather data
(o) (925)388-0265
(c) (510)928-2683
"building energy simulations at your fingertips"

On 2/3/2016 6:43 AM, Jim Dirkes wrote:

Francesco,

As I recall, the E+ weather files derive the climate zone based on various
attributes of the weather data.  In fact, I think there is a qualifying
statement within the .EPW files which says the climate zone may not be
"perfect"

For that reason, I would use the climate zone referenced in 90.1

On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 9:15 AM, Francesco Passerini <fpasserini.tn at gmail.com
<mailto:fpasserini.tn at gmail.com> > wrote:

In order to understand what thermal transmittances I shall impose in a
baseline model for LEED, I have to understand in what climate zone I shall
consider Rome. 

In TABLE B-3 "International Climate Zones" of ASHRAE 90.1-2010,
"Roma/Fiumicion" is zone 4, while in the weather file zone 3C is indicated.

The weather file for Fiumicino is available here:

https://energyplus.net/weather-location/europe_wmo_region_6/ITA//ITA_Roma-Fi
umicino.162420_IGDG
<https://energyplus.net/weather-location/europe_wmo_region_6/ITA/ITA_Roma-Fi
umicino.162420_IGDG> 

If you see the .stat file, HDD18°C = 1514, which respects the thermal
criteria for zone 3C (see Table B-4).

Is TABLE B-3 based on other weather data?

Best Regards

Francesco

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CEO/President
The Building Performance Team Inc.
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Direct: 616.450.8653
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