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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Francesco,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>I just checked my SI version of 90.1 and in fact the Climate Zone for Rome listed in Table B1-3 should be climate zone 3 not 4 based on the HDD and CDD data listed in Table D-3 and the Climate Zone criteria listed in Table B 1-4. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>One suggestion would be to submit an informal request to ASHRAE 90.1 clarifying whether this is a mistake. The committee can usually turn around an informal interpretation very quickly and then you would be able to submit to LEED with greater confidence using the correct Climate Zone. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>My gut says that GBCI would be reasonable in accepting the use of Climate Zone 3 given that it is pretty clear this is an error in Table B1-3. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Mike<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Michael Tillou, PE, LEED AP BD+C, ASHRAE BEMP<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Atelier Ten<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>T +1 (212) 254 4500 x208<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><img width=400 height=100 id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image001.png@01D15E93.0D1A5CD0" alt=Email-Footer-Invisible-Arch><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'> Bldg-sim [mailto:bldg-sim-bounces@lists.onebuilding.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Joe Huang<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 03, 2016 2:33 PM<br><b>To:</b> bldg-sim@lists.onebuilding.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bldg-sim] climate zone Rome<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Following up on this question ("Why is Rome in ASHRAE Climate Zone 4 when the weather files say it has less 1514 HDD ?),<br>I checked through various versions of ASHRAE 90.1 and Standard 169. Rome was so listed as CZ 4 in Version 2004 (which I have) down through Version 2010 (which I don't have but trusting what Francesco said :-)), but as CZ 3A in Version 2013. <br><br>However, when I looked in the Table D-3 of Version 2004, it gives Rome as having 2684 HDD65 (Fahrenheit), which converts to 1491 HDD10 (Celsius), which is consistent with the 1541 HDD10 of the weather file that Francesco is using (there are always a few percentage point differences between the long-term HDD and that from a typical year file). <br><br>Therefore, my conclusion is that there's a mistake in ASHRAE 90.1-2010, and my suggestion to Francesco is to base the reference building thermal properties on Climate Zone 3A for ASHRAE 90.1-2013, or if you don't have a copy, use Climate Zone 3A for ASHRAE 90.1-2010 and point out the error to whoever judges your LEED application. It should be a "no-brainer".<br><br>Joe<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>Joe Huang<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>White Box Technologies, Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Moraga CA 94556<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com">http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> for simulation-ready weather data<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>(o) (925)388-0265<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>(c) (510)928-2683<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>"building energy simulations at your fingertips"<o:p></o:p></pre><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 2/3/2016 7:42 AM, Joe Huang wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>I beg to differ on this. ASHRAE Climate Zones are very simply defined based of degree days, plus what I consider a faulty use of precipitation to differentiate "wet" from "dry" climates. When a EPW stat file gives the ASHRAE Climate Zone as 3, it's simply reporting the number of degree days in the file, and in that sense, absolutely correct. The reason for the discrepancy is that ASHRAE 90.1, or actually ASHRAE Standard 169 (Climate Data for Building Design Standards), did their climate zone mapping, they came up with a degree day value that put Rome in Climate Zone 4. The problem in this case is that all 3 weather files for Rome that I've looked into (IWEC, IWEC2, IGDG - the one used by Francesco) show HDD from 1440 to 1514, much below the 2000 HDD to fall into Climate Zone 4. I have a good idea how Standard 169 derived its degree days, but am waiting for confirmation lest I misspeak.<br><br>In the meanwhile, I would also recommend using the climate zone shown in 90.1 to set the reference building, but only because that's what listed, not because it's technically better.<br><br>Joe<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>Joe Huang<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>White Box Technologies, Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>346 Rheem Blvd., Suite 205A<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Moraga CA 94556<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com">yjhuang@whiteboxtechnologies.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com">http://weather.whiteboxtechnologies.com</a> for simulation-ready weather data<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>(o) (925)388-0265<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>(c) (510)928-2683<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>"building energy simulations at your fingertips"<o:p></o:p></pre><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 2/3/2016 6:43 AM, Jim Dirkes wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#B45F06'>Francesco,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#B45F06'>As I recall, the E+ weather files derive the climate zone based on various attributes of the weather data. In fact, I think there is a qualifying statement within the .EPW files which says the climate zone may not be "perfect"<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#B45F06'>For that reason, I would use the climate zone referenced in 90.1<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 9:15 AM, Francesco Passerini <<a href="mailto:fpasserini.tn@gmail.com">fpasserini.tn@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal>In order to understand what thermal transmittances I shall impose in a baseline model for LEED, I have to understand in what climate zone I shall consider Rome. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>In TABLE B-3 "International Climate Zones" of ASHRAE 90.1-2010, "Roma/Fiumicion" is zone 4, while in the weather file zone 3C is indicated.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The weather file for Fiumicino is available here:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <a href="https://energyplus.net/weather-location/europe_wmo_region_6/ITA/ITA_Roma-Fiumicino.162420_IGDG" target="_blank">https://energyplus.net/weather-location/europe_wmo_region_6/ITA//ITA_Roma-Fiumicino.162420_IGDG</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>If you see the .stat file, HDD18°C = 1514, which respects the thermal criteria for zone 3C (see Table B-4).<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Is TABLE B-3 based on other weather data?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Best Regards<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#888888'>Francesco<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>Bldg-sim mailing list<br><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org" target="_blank">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org</a><br>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>James V Dirkes II, PE, BEMP, LEED AP<br>CEO/President<br>The Building Performance Team Inc.<br>1631 Acacia Dr, GR, Mi 49504<br><br>Direct: 616.450.8653<br><a href="mailto:jim@buildingperformanceteam.com">jim@buildingperformanceteam.com</a><br><br><a href="http://buildingperformanceteamcom" target="_blank">Website </a>l <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jim-dirkes/7/444/413" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a> <o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:6.0pt;text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Fail faster!</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Bldg-sim mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org">http://lists.onebuilding.org/listinfo.cgi/bldg-sim-onebuilding.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>To unsubscribe from this mailing list send a blank message to <a href="mailto:BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG">BLDG-SIM-UNSUBSCRIBE@ONEBUILDING.ORG</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>