[Bldg-sim] Comfort calculation (globe temperature)

[Shivraj Dhaka]

Varun,

MRT, strongly depends on envelope properties and most of time Globe
temperature is considered as MRT but it is not acceptable always.  MRT
is calculated by three different ways-
-by calculating surface angle view factor
-through globe temperature
-using Rayman Model

hope this is useful to you.
shivraj




On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 11:08 PM, varun kulkarni <seldomvarun at gmail.com>wrote:

> Alright,
> I'll try to float my boat this way.
> Thanks a lot :)
>
> On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Anne Juran <juran at summerconsultants.com>wrote:
>
>>  Are you able to claim that the operative temperature equals the air
>> temperature based on the 4 criteria listed in Appendix C?  All my LEED
>> projects have met those criteria and GBCI accepted it.  Don’t know what to
>> tell you, though, if the criteria do not apply … sorry.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
>> bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *varun kulkarni
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 06, 2011 11:18 AM
>> *To:* Abushakra, Bass
>> *Cc:* bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Bldg-sim] Comfort calculation (globe temperature)****
>>
>>   ** **
>>
>> Right,****
>>
>> Because if you see the formula for MRT, as the air velocity approaches to
>> zero, MRT gets closer to globe temperature.****
>>
>> So MRT is equal to globe temperature, but only with zero air movement.***
>> *
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> I am still not able to figure out a way to document the MRT calculations
>> as there is no way I would be able to measure the actual globe temperature.
>> ****
>>
>> How am I suppose to show the PMV/PPD calculations and operative
>> temperature calculations in LEED documentations ?****
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Abushakra, Bass <abushakr at msoe.edu>
>> wrote:****
>>
>> Yes, MRT needs Globe Temperature.****
>>
>> Globe temperature requires a Globe Thermometer.  Radio Shack used to carry
>> them.****
>>
>> There are no tables that could give you a Globe Temperature, because the
>> reading depends on the specific space you’re studying.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Bass****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Bass Abushakra, Ph.D., Associate Professor****
>>
>> Technical Specialty Head, Building Mechanical Systems****
>>
>> Advisor, ASHRAE Student Branch****
>>
>> Civil and Architectural Engineering and Construction Management Department
>> ****
>>
>> Milwaukee School of Engineering****
>>
>> 1025 N. Broadway, CC-41****
>>
>> Milwaukee, WI 53202****
>>
>> Tel: 414-277-4551****
>>
>> Fax: 414-277-7415****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> *From:* bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
>> bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Larry Degelman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 06, 2011 9:34 AM
>> *To:* 'varun kulkarni'; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Bldg-sim] Comfort calculation (globe temperature)****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> I never knew that the MRT calculation would require Globe Temp.  My
>> understanding of this is that the Globe Temperature is actually a function
>> of Air Temp, MRT and the convection (air speed effects.)  The MRT is
>> calculable from the temperature of the surrounding surfaces.  If the Op Temp
>> calculation includes air temp, MRT, RH, and air speed, then there is no need
>> to ever know Globe Temp.   Opinions here, maybe not facts!****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Regards,****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> *===========================*****
>>
>> *Larry O. Degelman, PE, HBDP/BEMP*****
>>
>> *Professor Emeritus of Architecture*****
>>
>> *Texas A&M University*****
>>
>> *ldegelman at suddenlink.net*****
>>
>> *==========================*****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> *From:* bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:
>> bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *varun kulkarni
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 06, 2011 8:18 AM
>> *To:* bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
>> *Subject:* [Bldg-sim] Comfort calculation (globe temperature)****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Hello all,****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> For EQc7.1 in LEED NC 2009, I need to provide detailed calculations for
>> "operative temperature". ****
>>
>> ASHRAE 55 appendix C gives you the formula to calculate operative
>> temperature, but that requires mean radiant temperature. And the formula for
>> "mean radiant temperature" requires globe temperature.****
>>
>> I am trying to find a graph/chart/table from which I can obtain the "globe
>> temperature" or do I even need to find globe temperature ?****
>>
>> Any insights, suggestions would be appreciated.
>>
>> -- ****
>>
>> Thanks and Best Regards, ****
>>
>> Sincerely,****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Varun Kulkarni  ****
>>
>> Note: Please do not print, unless required.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- ****
>>
>> Thanks and Best Regards,****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Sincerely,****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Varun Kulkarni ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Note: Please do not print, unless required.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Thanks and Best Regards,
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Varun Kulkarni
>
> Note: Please do not print, unless required.
>
>
>
>
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-- 

Shivraj Dhaka
Research Scholar
Department of Mechanical Engineering
Malaviya National Institute of Technology Jaipur
M-+91-9828578171
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